Liverpool Waterloo Tunnel Update 10th Feb 2008

[petromax]

I had an idea many years ago for the re opening of the ex cheshire lines...which could also have the lines from walton through kirkdale and sandills (marked yellow) reinstated to 4 tracks if needed.



with regards the edge hill tunnels, i think the victoria and waterloo tunnels is a good idea.
i think the wapping tunnel on top of having a stream running nearby which causes water problems, is also built to a very tight loading gauge, Ive been told by ex railway men that 2 trains where not allowed to pass in the tunnel, such was the tightness of it, its one of the oldest railway tunnels ever, and the loading gauge is down to the size of locomotives at the time.

Mike

This is exactly the needed alignment for the loop line. It uses existing alignments. It does not conflict with 24hr freight operations on the Anfield line via Olive Mount Chord and it's a the optimum size at halfway between the outer edge of the system and the centre, thus being the most effective route for transfer between other modal radial routes, as well as a good provider of capacity on short journeys.

Making up to four through Kirkdale will also be much needed providing connection to Northshore (Liverpool part of the Atlantic Gateway Strategic Investment Area) and to Central Docks at a new station at Vauxhall - and there is space on the viaduct.

It can also be used for nodal Park and Ride for strictly local travel by car and into the public transport system. I have heard it said this is good for long car journeys too, but I think once you are in the car for more than say, 10mins, that's where people tend to like to stay.

I have also seen proposal for this to be Merseyrail and so frequent and connected into the existing system. The loop will aso relieve current congestion at Central where too many trais currently reminate by allowing more trains to run through.

Yes, the demand went and that's why it closed but if the population is to come back, it will be much in demand.

This has legs and I am sure we will see more of it.

Interesting stuff on Wapping Tunnel.

[Ged]

Please all keep to facts and opinions without name calling or calling others' intelligence into question. The fact this scheme hasn't happened yet might have a very good reason for it.

John, I believe it was MT who proposed the idea and the Chamber only got involved secondary if you read the posting I put up of Kevs from last May.

I know you were rumbled by Martin on SSC John, but I don't believe robt to be Martin so again, please stick to what we know for definite and the postings will be given the credibility they deserve then.

[Waterways]

I still have no idea who Martin is. Maybe you should enlighten me, rather than being downright rude. I don't need to insult you, or be rude, to get my point across.

OK you are not Martin

If you aims are achievable, please explain how, using realisitic technologies and funding? You say 80% is already there - 80% of what?

Oh No! You really are not that slow are you? Look at the map.

There are some old disused tunnels already there and some existing rail lines, that is it. In the grand scale of the whole finished project, that is about 5% already there.

Where did you learn to count? A part of the Northern line, which is one whole section even has choo, choos running on it.

If you idea is so good and achievable, then you are right, you are going round in circles - take it to someone who can do something about it?

Great idea.

Even you said it was a good idea, but not once said why it should not be implemented, whittering on about trams.

[robt]

Oh No! You really are not that slow are you? Look at the map.

Don't misquote me to try and make me look foolish. Like I have already said, I don't need to be rude to make a point.

Where did you learn to count? A part of the Northern line, which is one whole section even has choo, choos running on it.

See above.

Even you said it was a good idea, but not once said why it should not be implemented, whittering on about trams.

I have not read back, but I believe I said it would be great if it happened, but it never would.

[Waterways]

Martin on SSC John, but I don't believe robt to be Martin

Ged, he has a very similar style and attitude to him, immediately stating he knew more because he was in the rail industry - that cuts no ice with me. As if we don't understand what rail system do. He was negative as this Martin always is. Martin claims he works for a rail consultancy - figures!

[robt]

Ged, he has a very similar style and attitude to him, immediately stating he knew more because he was in the rail industry - that cuts no ice with me. As if we don't understand what rail system do. He was negative as this Martin always is. Martin claims he works for a rail consultancy - figures!

I do not need to prove anything, however, if you would like to meet for a friendly drink so you can see I'm not, the offer is there. If you turn that down, I think you should drop the 'Martin thing'

[Waterways]

Don't misquote me to try and make me look foolish. Like I have already said, I don't need to be rude to make a point.

I am not being rude. You are coming out with nonsense. As I said look at he map. 5%? What map were you looking at?

I have not read back, but I believe I said it would be great if it happened, but it never would.

That is encouraging.

[robt]

I am not being rude. You are coming out with nonsense. As I said look at he map. 5%? What map were you looking at?

I said 5% of the total project. That would include signalling, stock, and relaying track to name just three.

[petromax]

Good stuff. Of course it is important to not lose focus, but what I write on this board does not necessarily mean it is in my dissertation! For instance, the 'hanging railway' was a bit of light-hearted fun. ...my main aim was to look at areas of poor access to rail, NOT just Liverpool city centre - ...We can't forget how thousands of commuters travel into the city centre every day and these are invaluable to the economy of the city (some might say they are more important because they are likely to be wealthier and more economically active). ..., get ALL the suburban lines reopened ASAP because not EVERYONE travels into Liverpool. Important to not lose focus of that too.

I agree. Half of the jobs are in Liverpool City centre ie 50% of the jobs in let's say 5% of the area. Not only does that mean that half the working population need to get from a big area into a small area - a significant demand for public transport; but that the other half needs to either travel locally or around the outside of the city in the suburbs and in the wards that surround the centre.

I don't think the hanging railway is so far-fetched for travel along the waterfront linking Central Docks to King's Dock via Pier Head as both a business necessity and a tourist attraction. Others, including the biggest landowner in the city besides the city itself, believe it should go even further.

[Waterways]

How is it cost effective? Would anyone be able to put a figure on the whole operation? Who will pay for it? Will it be paid by ticket sales? We're still paying off the Mersey Tunnel with fares years later!

All that is not at the conceptual level.

[Waterways]

the 'hanging railway' was a bit of light-hearted fun. There's no way that'd happen in Liverpool in a million years!

I hope not! The concept of the hanging railway is good. That implementation is very poor.

The only focus I am losing is spending too much time online! But my main aim was to look at areas of poor access to rail, NOT just Liverpool city centre - which is why I frequently include suburban areas in my posts - important to not forget about these as public transport is less frequent and less reliable the further you go from a city centre.

Quite right. But! it is a matter of priorities. I want to see trams fill the gaps an they can via the boulevards that were design to take them in the central reservations.

We can't forget how thousands of commuters travel into the city centre every day and these are invaluable to the economy of the city (some might say they are more important because they are likely to be wealthier and more economically active).

The focus of wealth is moving in the centre and this may be a lot quicker than you think. Catering for the centre - where regeneration and wealth creation would be - maybe should be the focus.

This is my focus, so whilst I take your advice into account, my aim is not to improve Liverpool - it is to consider all of Merseyside. Being a suburban commuter myself, I of course want to see better services into Liverpool!

The council would like to get you living in or near the centre.

And as I work at Sefton Council, I would also love to see the NMB reopen because at present, I must drive. Therefore, get ALL the suburban lines reopened ASAP because not EVERYONE travels into Liverpool. Important to not lose focus of that too.

All a part of the overall system when complete.

[Waterways]

I don't think the hanging railway is so far-fetched for travel along the waterfront linking Central Docks to King's Dock via Pier Head as both a business necessity and a tourist attraction. Others, including the biggest landowner in the city besides the city itself, believe it should go even further.

If this hanging railway can't integrate into the existing system, it will be mainly a tourist railway. Nice to have, however, that is a lot of expense, that can be better used elsewhere to project the city forwards.

[Ged]

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/...0061-18708392/


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[Ged]

Remember this

http://videos.icnetwork.co.uk/iclive...ntralDocks.wmv


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[Waterways]

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/...0061-18708392/

Many versions of Monorail have been thought of - along the south docks was first. They say...
With 25,000 homes planned, along with four hotels, restaurants, bars and leisure facilities, Peel has included a rapid monorail link to the city centre waterfront, and onwards to Liverpool John Lennon Airport

I always wondered how they were going to get to the airport, as Garston Docks and Grassendale are in the way. Also when you leave the docks, the monorail will parallel the Northern Line. They could go up Jericho Lane and down Aigburth Rd - where people live.

I think this is just wish list from Peel - to get the scheme noticed.