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Thread: Liverpool Waterloo Tunnel Update 10th Feb 2008

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    www.oldliverpoolrailways. oritelad's Avatar
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    Default Liverpool Waterloo Tunnel Update 10th Feb 2008

    Wow just been to look at the waterloo tunnel and wow after all these years since the early 1970s the tunnel and the site of the old hodson street station is clear of all them years off overgrowth and rubbish i got some boss photos, anyone have any updates on the plan to for the new merseyrail line for this tunnel?

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    http://s153.photobucket.com/albums/s...ilways/Hodson/
    Last edited by oritelad; 02-10-2008 at 08:32 PM.

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    urh, hurry up and post your pics!! I would have loved to had seen the tunnel
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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oritelad View Post
    Wow just been to look at the waterloo tunnel and wow after all these years since the early 1970s the tunnel and the site of the old hodson street station is clear of all them years off overgrowth and rubbish i got some boss photos, anyone have any updates on the plan to for the new merseyrail line for this tunnel?
    Yes, post the pics. "Hodson St" station is still in question. Anything from Merseyrail tends to be a wish-list rather than firm plans.
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    The 4th pic on your photobucket is way out of date. It was taken during the demolition of Fonney Oy in 1988/89.
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    PhilipG
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    Yes, post the pics. "Hodson St" station is still in question. Anything from Merseyrail tends to be a wish-list rather than firm plans.
    I'm not an expert on railways, but I can't see the point of an intermediate station on what was a Goods line.
    The Victoria and the Wapping tunnels were built to transport goods between Edge Hill and the Docks (North and South).
    What would an intermediate station be used for, and isn't it significant that there aren't any in the Wapping tunnel?
    Last edited by PhilipG; 02-11-2008 at 11:32 AM.

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    i'm way out of contact but is the jist of the story / pics that it has taken 100 years plus to un-improve the place, if so i'm not surprised, stations we needed 100 years ago are useless as we now have cars, lorrys etc... they are nice to see in the regard of the way we used to live but also we used cut up squares of newspaper instead of toilet tissue, nice to remember but nobody's going back to it, maybe you could initiate a book /forum telling us how exactly it used to be, who went there and why coupled up with some more photos for old times sake,

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    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    As i've said before, I lived a stones throw from this site and never knew of a station ever being there, (although of course there could've been many moons earlier) Mike Delamar who comes on this site now and again, is a sort of authority on railways, having the Crown st layout at the last Liverpool railway exhibition show and knows the chaps working on the Lime st one. He's read all the books, got all the pics and is a chum of a very old bloke who worked on the steam engines and if he says there wasn't a station at Hodson Street, I believe him. He reckons the cutting there is only so big as to be an access point for any problems below.
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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ged View Post
    As i've said before, I lived a stones throw from this site and never knew of a station ever being there, (although of course there could've been many moons earlier) Mike Delamar who comes on this site now and again, is a sort of authority on railways, having the Crown st layout at the last Liverpool railway exhibition show and knows the chaps working on the Lime st one. He's read all the books, got all the pics and is a chum of a very old bloke who worked on the steam engines and if he says there wasn't a station at Hodson Street, I believe him. He reckons the cutting there is only so big as to be an access point for any problems below.
    I could understand the overlarge cutting being at the half-way point, however it is not. It is very near to the Waterloo Dock exit of the tunnel. The Tunnel has two names. and changes name around this point. This may indicate why the cutting is there.

    The cutting is overlarge for ventilation purposes and must have had some other purpose. Or it was for another reason and plans changed and it was kept. In London and NY whole underground stations were built and never used as plans changed in mid project.
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    www.oldliverpoolrailways. oritelad's Avatar
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    as i have said before i am not saying hodson station was a proper station at all but we should not just ignore it from what i know there was platforms, station building down there and stairs leading down and this station is not listed on any maps but from what i know it was there and never lasted long even my granddad has used it has he lived by it all his life, it was more for access and rail workers ect not for passengers really but this station was built to be a proper station but the plan was scraped remember this line was used by passengers to reach riverside station from edge hill and i cant find any records of alcar rifle range station or millers bridge station or british anka great howard street but we know they where there dont know why everyone is so against hodson station not being there

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    Quote Originally Posted by oritelad View Post
    as i have said before i am not saying hodson station was a proper station at all but we should not just ignore it from what i know there was platforms, station building down there and stairs leading down and this station is not listed on any maps but from what i know it was there and never lasted long even my granddad has used it has he lived by it all his life, it was more for access and rail workers ect not for passengers really but this station was built to be a proper station but the plan was scraped remember this line was used by passengers to reach riverside station from edge hill and i cant find any records of alcar rifle range station or millers bridge station or british anka great howard street but we know they where there dont know why everyone is so against hodson station not being there
    The station, if it was there, is out of living memory. There is no photographic evidence or written of any sort so far, so people will naturally assume one was not there.

    You say your Grandad used it for work purposes. I don't disbelieve you, however a stop for workers is rather different to a full blown passenger station. Also as the cutting is so close to Waterloo why would a stop be in the tunnel? It doesn't make sense. I am not saying it wasn't there, just that nothing logically fits about using the cutting as a station for any reason.
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    Hi Guys

    I thought I cleared up the reason why the cutting was wide here on another thread which I have copied below. I have never found any reference to a station at this place in the various LNWR minute books I have studied at the PRO. Without wishing to disrespectfull memories cloud as we get older. My wife's father often talked about the 14 stations on the overhead railway and wouldn't believe me when I told him he was wrong even when I showed him the book 'Seventeen Stations to Dingle'!

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Waterways
    The cutting is way too large for ventilation and is station sized. This naturally makes people think there was a station there. I have a hunch provision was put for one in case when the tunnel was being cut.

    Ah well if that's the reason I can clear this up. The cutting was wide because that was the location of the runaway catch points. The one on the line to Waterloo ran off towards the wall. The one on the line to Edge Hill ran off between the running lines hence they would be set at a wider interval.

    Mike Turner

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikewturner View Post
    Ah well if that's the reason I can clear this up. The cutting was wide because that was the location of the runaway catch points. The one on the line to Waterloo ran off towards the wall. The one on the line to Edge Hill ran off between the running lines hence they would be set at a wider interval.

    Mike Turner
    I'm not quite sure how that works. Are you saying there was a widening of the tunnel at this point?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    I'm not quite sure how that works. Are you saying there was a widening of the tunnel at this point?
    Hi

    Yes the cutting was wider as effectively it had to accomodate four lines. The two normal running lines plus a runoff to the side of one of them and another into the middle between them like this if you get what I mean.

    Edge Hill
    >__________________\___________________ Waterloo

    <__________________/___________________

    The cutting here is close to the base of rising gradients towards Edge Hill and Waterloo.

    I will scan an extract of a plan and post when I get a chance.

    Regards

    Mike

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikewturner View Post
    Hi

    Yes the cutting was wider as effectively it had to accomodate four lines. The two normal running lines plus a runoff to the side of one of them and another into the middle between them like this if you get what I mean.

    Edge Hill
    >__________________\___________________ Waterloo

    <__________________/___________________

    The cutting here is close to the base of rising gradients towards Edge Hill and Waterloo.

    I will scan an extract of a plan and post when I get a chance.

    Regards

    Mike
    Yes, from Waterloo to Hodson St it is pretty flat then a sharp rise.
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    how it once was?


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    Whether there was a station there 100 years ago or not is pretty irrelevant in my eyes.
    From a student's point of view, such as myself, a new 'metro' station at Byrom St (or Fontenoy) would be fantastic.
    I am at Byrom St, along with around 2000 other students and hundreds of staff. The only car parking is for staff, and this is set to close in the future - I think the uni wants to encourage more 'environmentally sustainable' ways of travelling to Byrom St.
    Also near this 'station' are many student flats, the Avril Robarts library, the museum, art gallery, and of course the excellent Ship & Mitre pub!

    Another way of looking at this in a 'student' perspective is that this tunnel effectively ends up at Edge Hill. It is around this area that many students live, and if a new station was constructed around Smithdown, access to Byrom St for students would be easier, quicker, more 'sustainable', and help ease road congestion.

    One more issue as regards this line and universities, is the even better prospect of opening a new station somewhere around the Liverpool University district, serving even more students. I know the line runs underneath The Dental University, which is more or less in the heart of the university area, but I'm not sure where the exits would be. This shouldn't be a problem though, as some underground exits are so small, you wouldn't know they were.

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