Julia Wallace Murder Case

[Ged]

Yes burkhilly, it is claimed that Lily Lloyd tried to withdraw her alibi for Parry for the murder night but as she only ever said she saw him from 9pm ish anyway, it didn't matter as the murder must have been done prior to WHW arriving home at 8.45pm. Parry says he was with olivia Brine and others during the time of the murder which was allegedly checked out.

If though she is saying she didn't see him as early as 9ish - then we have to ask why she gave him an alibi for that time, if he did put her up to giving him an alibi for that time and if so what he was really up to. Perhaps driving the murderer from the scene, disposing of the iron bar, cleaning himself or the murderer up so as to be spotless when he did see her later. However, the car wasn't allegedly washed out until the early hours of the morning after the murder according to Parkes.

Hector Munro doesn't recall Lily Lloyd coming to him to retract the alibi anyway it seems. Even if true, WHW had been acquitted on appeal by then and had in fact died. Some think the attempted alibi retraction were the actions of a woman scorned as Parry had ditched her.

[IAN DAVID FRYER]

I don't know about you Ian but I have to say that I've never read a book that has swayed me - I go by reading the trial transcript, police reports and (some!) newspaper reports. Murphy's book is a great book but it is completely biased towards a guilty verdict. Nothing wrong in that of course but there are points in Wallace's favour that Murphy excludes. I am convinced Wallace couldn't have battered her (because of the lack of blood on him and yes, as you say many other factors) but I'm convinced it couldn't be anyone else (please excuse if that makes no sense at all!) I think Chandler said something similar along the lines of 'Wallace couldn't have committed it, and neither could anyone else'). That is why this case drives me around the bend. As I've said - some days I get up and believe it was Wallace, other days I believe his innocence. Ha ha Slemen...He's been too busy recently solving the Jack the Ripper case
Have a great time at the Prof Simpson talk.

MARK I'm glad you are now as convinced as most of us that WHW couldn't have battered JULIA(you had me worried for a while!)..if he had,he must have been Qualtrough & made the phone call in an "ordinary" voice that his friend Samuel Beattie was adamant was NOT WALLACE. So its back to the big question if not WALLACE then who was Qualtrough..& its back again to a conspiracy of at least one other person if RGP's alibi for the murder night stacks up! IAN(FJumble)

[Ged]

Is it Wilkes or Goodman who says that Parry's alibi for the murder night is basically fabrication which would have fallen down flat if checked out. If I have his right, what does he mean. I assume Olivia Brine, her daughter and nephew were not all in on it too.

---------- Post added at 02:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:11 PM ----------

Josephine Ward Lloyd, the mother of Parry's girlfriend Lily gave a statement to the police that 'On Monday 19th, Parry called at about 7.15pm' 'At about' is obviously loose and critically important because it was 7.15pm when the Qualtrough call was made from the phone box in Rochester Road, just a very short drive away from the residence of Mrs Lloyd at 7 Missouri Road, Clubmoor.

This and Parry's statement is a lie according to Lily Loyd's statement as posted up by John Gannon.

It would appear that lily Lloyd did not get into Parry's car on the 20th as he called at her house around 9ish whilst she was in and there he stayed until 11ish - before perhaps going to get the car washed???

[burkhilly]

Thanks Ged. What a shame the alibis weren't checked throughly at the time, the way such things are apparently done now. Mind you we probably would be discussing the case now if they had!

[Ged]

I can't believe how at odds Parry's and Lily Lloyd's statements are for the phone call night and why this wasn't looked into - or was it???

[Mark R]

I think Goodman and Wilkes were referring to Lily Lloyd's statement Ged (the one that she said she'd 'lied' about). As far as I know, the Brine statements etc were unbeknown to Goodman and Wilkes when their books were published.




---------- Post added at 02:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:39 PM ----------

I can't believe how at odds Parry's and Lily Lloyd's statements are for the phone call night and why this wasn't looked into - or was it???

You'd THINK they would!

[Ged]

I wonder who Parry visited in Lark Lane on Monday 19th when he called to see Lily but she was busy teaching a pupil. Her mother said he got off to Lark Lane, returning at 9pm to see Lily. It is this day that Lily says he called on her part way through the lesson she was giving and the time was 7.35pm, giving him sufficient time to have made the Qualtrough call - though, her mother says it was about 7.15pm when he called (possibly ruling him out of having made the call)

[Mark R]

I wonder...He seems a shadowy character to say the least. Isn't Lark Lane fairly near Ullet Road? Maybe he was having a secret tryst with Amy Wallace

[RodCrosby]

I wonder who Parry visited in Lark Lane on Monday 19th when he called to see Lily but she was busy teaching a pupil. Her mother said he got off to Lark Lane, returning at 9pm to see Lily

Perhaps he went to North John Street instead, to check that Wallace was at the chess club, or to pick up his accomplice who had done the same...

[Acrosstheuniverse]

Perhaps he went to North John Street instead, to check that Wallace was at the chess club, or to pick up his accomplice who had done the same...

Perhaps...

[Ged]

Yes, but wasn't it just an accident that Lily wasn't available to see him, he must not have been expecting she had a pupil - what then - perhaps no Lark Lane/North John st or wherever? I wonder if it was someone residing in Lark Lane or meeting him at a pub there or something. Just my mind working overtime.

[IAN DAVID FRYER]

Just a small point GED..LILY LLOYD'S statement says RGP visited PARK LANE..her mother says LARK LANE....strange the police didnt clarify & question who he claimed to have visited!! IAN(FJumble)

[Ged]

Yes didn't Lily say she thought it sounded like Park Lane, possibly misheard? As it was actually her mother who spoke to him, I took that one to be correct.

[IAN DAVID FRYER]

Yes, but wasn't it just an accident that Lily wasn't available to see him, he must not have been expecting she had a pupil - what then - perhaps no Lark Lane/North John st or wherever? I wonder if it was someone residing in Lark Lane or meeting him at a pub there or something. Just my mind working overtime.

GED.... R.G.PARRY must have KNOWN Lily LLoyd was with her music pupil when he said he called in!! Her mother stated that RITA PRICE had a regular Monday slot at 7.00pm(but she was late that night)...so,why did he claim he waited 15 min.when he knew she wouldnt be free of RITA till about 8.10pm....his alibi for Monday night is so full of holes...... I agree with you about the P/LARK LANE being misheard...IAN(FJUmble)

[Ged]

Very good point John. I had overlooked the fact he said he went to an address that 'I cannot for the moment remember' where he picked up Lily when in fact he didn't. Another lie - from an 'innocent' ??? and yet another discrepancy seemingly not checked out by the police. It seems Parry could have said whatever he wanted and he would not have been pulled. Such amateurish covering by himself and even yet worse amateurish detective work. Would it not have been prudent of Hector Munro's team to scour these statements too on behalf of Wallace's defense, in fact, a neglect of duty not to?