Yes Ian that's right. I have the recording of the Who Killed Julia? Programme. It was Lilian Martha Kelly and yes, she was living in New York at the time (1980-81). The operators also said that RMQ pronounced cafe as ca-fay (incidentally, there is a cafe opened yards away from no.24 on North John Street called the Cafay...)
It is Accomplished
Thanks MARK.did you also record the aftermath phone in with Ted Jackson/Russell Johnston/Leslie Williamson etc etc ??? I've just been re-reading(must get a life!!) James Murphy's version of how the naked WHW killed his wife,had a bath then was on a tram miles away at 7.06 pm... its so bad it rather spoils an excellent book!! IAN(FJumble)
Hi Ian no, I don't have the aftermath phone in. Get a life? Nonsense. What would we have to talk about?Originally Posted by IAN DAVID FRYER
Yes, I am in complete agreement with you regarding James Murphy's book. It is an excellent account. I just don't believe Wallace had the time to do all the things he would have had to do and without avoiding blood spatter. It was also pretty well investigated regarding the bath being used and tests showed that it hadn't. I know techniques of the day left a lot to be desired but I think if the bath would have been used, especially with so much blood being spilt, police and forensics wouldn't have failed to notice something.
It is Accomplished
So Parry's alibi for 19th January is full of holes?
Celeriter Nil Crede
Three problems with Murphy's book/hypothesis:
-The notion Wallace made the call. Sorry, but no way Beattie wouldn't recognize him. Never mind that he 'wasn't expecting' to him and therefore didn't pick up on it. And no way Wallace would risk being heard (never mind being seen!) to make that call. One slip up or the slightest suspicion from Beattie and he would be toast.
-The timing is ludicrous. Even if one believes Wallace did acheive it in exactly that amount of time, the problem becomes could he plot beforehand and allow himself such a tight time?...if anything goes even slightly wrong...takes a minute too long and he's screwed. The timing is precariously tight (and Murphy's setting it back to 6:35 from 6:45 with such certainty is laughable) but even assuming a miracle, it is way too iffy to be planned out as such. Murphy's counter-argument to this is Wallace could make his timeframe up as he went along and then leave immediately to create the perfect alibi. Um...does Murphy forget Wallace had the fixed appointment time of 7:30 with Qualtrough? I believe the murder happened later (at around 7:30) when Wallace was out being seen mid-trip searching for Qualtrough. It was only the poor work of J Mcfall and the picking apart of the milk boy's initial 6:45 statement that created doubt in the juror's minds of Wallace's perfect alibi. Of course I believe Wallace planned the murder, so I don't feel too sorry for him that his perfect plan fell apart a little bit.
-Lastly, Murphy doesn't even attempt to explain how the drains could be free of blood. I have heard some explanations that while straining credulity a bit, are at least somewhat plausible invoving caustic materials and such. But Murphy doesn't even address the idea. Of course, if Wallace did have to clean the drains, this would have added to the timeframe required.
There is so much that supports the "Parry & A.N. Other did it together" theory then. Far, far more, imho, than supports any other theory.
John Parkes saying "Parry & A.N. Other" tried to lean on him afterwards is the icing on the cake.
Case closed, I think.
Celeriter Nil Crede
Rod do you think Wallace was involved or not?
No, Wallace wasn't involved. Parry set him up. He had the means, motive and opportunity.
Parry also knew he would be a suspect, so had to recruit A.N. Other to burglarise the house, posing as Qualtrough. It went wrong and Julia died.
The Qualtrough plan was ingenious, and double-edged. It was designed to send Wallace on a wild goose chase to Menlove Gardens, and to also persuade Julia to admit Qualtrough when he instead came knocking at Wolverton Street.
It all fits like a glove.
Celeriter Nil Crede
Rod, if it was another that Julia knew (Marsden perhaps?) then why would he need to pretend to be Qualtrough to gain entry? And how would this person, even if Julia did not know him, explain his reason for being there and think that he could get alone for enough time to get away with committing the robbery and leave undetected without struggle?
I don't think it was anyone Julia knew, which rules out Marsden. Whoever it was, in league with Parry, knew that there would be at least an hour before Wallace returned. Plenty of time.
All Qualtrough had to say was "there must have been a mix up. I distinctly left the message to say I would call here tonight at 7.30 on an important matter!" Julia would be covered in confusion, and reassured that there was indeed a Mr. Qualtrough from Mossley Hill [after all that was where poor William was bound for at that very moment] would most likely admit him to await William's return.
That was the gamble anyhow, and it worked...
Celeriter Nil Crede
but how could this man rob the place and get away undetected and unrecognized...or expect to without violence?
in fact how could ANY robbery motive be plausible considering the point I just made?
"but how could this man rob the place and get away undetected and unrecognized...or expect to without violence?"
Do you read the papers? It happens all the time, especially to old folks...
Sometimes it goes tragically wrong, however.
Celeriter Nil Crede
Julia wasn't senile yet.... nevertheless I do think your idea is inventive and clever. I just can't see it ever working in any practice. So you would have to assume Parry was genius enough to invent all these angles but stupid enough to think it could work.
Imagine Wallace returning home and Julia telling him what happened...surely they would be very suspicious and investigate, seeing that they were ripped off? Julia would remember the man no doubt.
"Julia wasn't senile yet..."
but she was incontinent. Perhaps Qualtrough thought his opportunity to steal would arise when she went to the loo.
The fact that coins were scattered around the hearth suggests to me that Qualtrough grabbed the money rapidly and carelessly while Julia's back was turned...
Perhaps Julia noticed these coins when she returned downstairs, and smelt a rat.
Perhaps she took down the mackintosh because she was about to leave the house.
Qualtrough couldn't let her do that, of course...
Celeriter Nil Crede
Re: the telephone call. As much as Beattie recognising the voice I also find it completely out of character for someone as perceived as intelligent as Wallace to be seen using a call box in Anfield. Many in the area knew him and as you know he was hardly discreet - he was 6 "2 and probably stood out like a sore thumb. Also the fact that the call was traced. I don't go for the old 'nobody knew calls could be traced in those days.' Wallace was of a scientific mind and a regular subscriber to scientific magazines. I'm pretty sure he would recognise the fact that it could be traced. I concur with you as well regarding the timing. As I say, if Alan Close's bicycle hadn't been damaged he wouldn't have called when he did. Where does that leave a 'perfectly executed plan?'
Yes the blood...The biggest thing in Wallace's favour imho. I've also heard Wallaceites claim that 'he could have evaded spatter or it might not have been that bad.' This is nonsense of course. Nothing bleeds like a head wound and blood has been the curse of prospective killers throughout history. A pint to a pint and a half was spilled, which is an incredible amount. The old argument that 'there was none outside the parlour so he evaded it' holds no credibility either. Whoever was in that room must have been spattered.
---------- Post added at 01:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:53 PM ----------
But what if Wallace decided not to go up to Menlove Gardens? Or was notified beyond ALL reasonable doubt that there was no such place? Yes, I know the Gardens hadn't been a residential area for long and that is a point. Qualtrough was taking a massive risk in pinning his hopes on Wallace following it all through though...
It is Accomplished
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