Julia Wallace Murder Case

[IAN DAVID FRYER]

Has the Forum ever done a "straw poll" to see peoples opinions of the WALLACE case? ie 1) WHO KILLED JULIA? 2) MOTIVE for murder
3)Who Was Qualtrough? My own views,for what they are worth are currently 1)I cant possibly see how WHW himself could have battered his wife to death..but I'll reserve judgement on whether he organised her death till JOHN GANNON'S book comes out(its well worth checking his piece BeatlesLiverpoolandMore for latest update) 2)Until Murphy's book,I couldnt find a serious motive(like HEMERDE)..but the huge age gap which she must have kept secret as she lied on her marriage certificate,surely gives WHW a reason to feel cheated & bitter(as Stephen Guy mentioned,though I'm not sure about the kids issue) 3) Since 1981,I've never had any doubt that the voice of R.M. QUALTROUGH was Richard Gordon Parry..actor,con-man.even tried to fiddle the coins making the call to the chess club by claiming he'd pressed the wrong button!! I think poor JULIA WALLACE is a real mystery figure,we know next to nothing about the real woman or about the true nature of her relationship with HERBERT(every time Billy Butler called him WILLIAM WALLACE I thought of Braveheart)Her family seemed to have disowned her..but why..did she upset them with her age lie also? As regards the couple appearing "happy & normal together"...how can you really know..I sure the WEST'S neighbours & the people next door to Peter Sutcliffe never imagined they were living next to monsters!! IAN(FJumble)

[Ged]

All very good points Ian.

It seems Julia also fantasised a little and created mythical persona's for her parents.

I think (unless he was really clever and pre-meditated) Wallace's diaries do not bring up anything other than them being pretty mundane and normal. Even when he could have admitted her murder on his deathbed or in his post trial diaries - he never, instead only talking of how Julia would have loved the new bungalow in Wirral.

I would love to be privvy to what Parry and Julia discussed at their meetings - liasons which seem to have been kept a secret from WHW.

[Mark R]

I did actually start a Yahoo group in 2007 but shut it down due to lack of interest (and also some strange characters joining...) I installed a poll on whether individuals thought Wallace was a) Guilty b) Not Guilty c) Undecided. If memory serves me correctly, only one member (out of 14 that voted) thought WHW was guilty. A few were 'innocent' and most 'don't know'!!!
I honestly believe Wallace more than likely knew Julia's real age. He said 'My wife, who is about the same age as me...' but it all seemed rather cagey regarding their personal lives. Even MacFall fell into the trap on his post mortem claiming the victim to be about '55 years of age.'
Yes, you're right though re: what we really know about their private lives, although Wallace does seem to be fond of Julia in his diaries (yes, there is the odd criticism but which couple have never had that?) and he did show concern when Julia was late returning one night but was it all an act?

---------- Post added at 12:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:27 PM ----------

I forgot to mention it, Billy Butler gave me the address for local DVD's

www.liverpoolartistes.com

I've accessed the site and The Man From The Pru can be found here:

http://www.liverpoolartistes.com/ind...=data_home&a=2

About a third of the page down. I bought it a few years ago and the picture & sound quality are not bad. Whatever you may think of the film, it is still essential viewing.

[IAN DAVID FRYER]

IF he was vain & bitter,which is of couse pure speculation at this stage,then maybe the Diaries were part of his long term plan to rid himself of a fast aging wife & commit the perfect crime..which, if he was behind the murder, then he almost certainly achieved..we are still argueing about it 80 years later!! I always thought it odd that WHW sold his story to JOHN BULL mag.(The Man They Couldnt Hang),this seemed very out of character from the upright, much wronged, pillar of society personna he so groomed.... JULIA'S real age is,for me, the most important real fact to imerge in recent times.I cant think WHW knew she was 52 when he married her or that he allowed her to state he age as 37 on their wedding certificate..is lying on a wedding certificate a crime? is aiding & abetting such deceipt also a crime? I really dont know,but it is,of course, a legal document. ..but I cant believe in 1931 that he was still convinced she was the same age as him....even though he looked at least 10 years older himself!! In your 2007 poll,I would have voted b)NOT GUILTY,now I'd have to say c)NOT SURE..What about MOTIVE & QUALTROGH questions?? IAN(FJumble)

[Mark R]

Yes Ian, it could be said that was it a long term plan by Wallace? Like everything in this case it can go either way!! Yes, he looked considerably older than his 52 years at the time. He did sell his story to John Bull but it is believed to have been ghosted and that WHW only gave details and the writer took it from there. He seemed to bask in the limelight too. During the trial he was looking all over the court and following it with great interest (this doesn't make him a murderer!) There are many who say that he was a quiet, unsociable person but I think this isn't completely true - he gave lectures in chemistry for five years and also had a social life (be it chess or music). He wasn't as much Billy-no-mates (or should that be Willy?) as some would imagine.

[Ged]

As has been mentioned before, I would have to say that a plan such as this with so many things that could have gone wrong right from the outset - re: the Qualtrough call (just someone merely recognising a local resident in or near the call box around that time) would all have been enough to hang him. I wouldn't call it the plan of a mind of a chess player (as mediocre at is as he was) but more the plan of someone who thought they were smart and got away with it through luck rather than fantastic planning. Couldn't Wallace have found a less messy way of the dispatching of her? Poisoning, falling on one of their walks, even drowning in a park lake during a walk - anything but blood being splattered everywhere and the elaborate hoax alibi.

I think Parry was Qualtrough as his alibi for that night doesn't get him off with that as he only arrived 'about 7.15'. If not Parry then an accomplice of his but not necessarily Marsden. I still think the police should have taken Parkes' story more seriously, especially about the murder weapon being ditched down a drain in Priory Road.

[Mark R]

Yes Ged. The method had so many things that could have gone wrong and Vincent Burke once made a good point - if Wallace was guilty, he must surely have realised that whether he got off with it or not, his life would be destroyed with the consequences - what with the vilification he would be subjected to and media interest etc.
As for the 'time angle' there would have been no alibi if Alan Close's bicycle hadn't been damaged. All this 'precision time scale' doesn't hold any water when it comes right down to it.

[Spike]

Well im new to this so I can not say much. I dont think Wallace could have done it alone. Maybe with others yes...Its a very interesting case. Sadly I doubt the truth will ever come out. Poor Julia still without justice.

You two have got me into this now. I read it again yesterday.

---------- Post added at 02:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:29 PM ----------

Maybe we should spare a thought on this day to the victim in all this.

R.I.P Julia.

[Mark R]

Thanks Spike I'm sure you're right - we''ll never know for definite and you're also right about the victim - they always seem to be the forgotten ones It is a sad fact that there are more known photos of Julia in death than in life. What a sad legacy.

[Spike]

It is a sad fact that there are more known photos of Julia in death than in life. What a sad legacy.

Now that is very sad.

[IAN DAVID FRYER]

Good point MARK about ALAN CLOSE'S bicycle being crucial to WHW's time alibi...but not if WALLACE knew the deed was scheduled for lets say 7.30 pm when was in Menlove Gardens..he could have expected a top home office pathologist to some idea of when she died surely!! The way the public sympathy swung one way & then the other,is I suppose,predictable...but if Wallace knew he only had a year or two left anyway would he have been bothered?Initially he had great support from the PRU.,work collegues & friends & of course his brother JOSEPH but Joe Public thought if the police have arrested him it must mean he killed his wife,then when he was sentenced to death on next to no evidence,opinion swung strongly in favour of WALLACE.But of course when he was finally reprieved,it was perceived that he had got away with murder... I suppose if WHW hated JULIA enough to want her dead,cynically perhaps,MARK,but his diary note about "JULIA would have loved it here in the Wirral Bungalow" might have had been suffixed "He He !!"........ I agree with you GED about surely he could have found an easier, less risky way of getting rid of poor JULIA..but the fact remains SOMEBODY she knew, smashed her head in & it certainly wasnt WHW directly..so who else & why?Whoever it was was VERY VERY lucky on so many counts! If we all agree(?) that PARRY was QUALTROUGH then right away we have considerably reduced the possiblities...it wasnt just a random murder or a burglary that went wrong..it was planned.....IAN(FJumble)

[Spike]

The Atkinson Garage on Mascow Drive. Did the owners have any connection to the Atkinson Bakery in Kremlin Drive ( next road )?

Funny that they both still have the Atkinson name. The Bakery has been sold but the sign has survived the refit. Is the garage still run by the Atkinson family?

My wife remembers the garage well and says it always had Taxi's outside and it had petrol pumps. I went past today and they were outside working on a Taxi Ha ha. This Taxi connection with them goes way back.

[Mark R]

The Atkinson Garage on Mascow Drive. Did the owners have any connection to the Atkinson Bakery in Kremlin Drive ( next road )?

Funny that they both still have the Atkinson name. The Bakery has been sold but the sign has survived the refit. Is the garage still run by the Atkinson family?

My wife remembers the garage well and says it always had Taxi's outside and it had petrol pumps. I went past today and they were outside working on a Taxi Ha ha. This Taxi connection with them goes way back.

Spike, as a kid growing up in the area, I always wondered if the two Atkinson's were related. Someone told me they weren't. Yes, your wife is right - it did always have taxis outside and as you say, you still see the odd cab outside. I remember the pumps as well! Yes, I think it is still the Atkinson's who run it.

[Spike]

Spike, as a kid growing up in the area, I always wondered if the two Atkinson's were related. Someone told me they weren't. Yes, your wife is right - it did always have taxis outside and as you say, you still see the odd cab outside. I remember the pumps as well! Yes, I think it is still the Atkinson's who run it.

Cheers Mark

[Mark R]

Good point MARK about ALAN CLOSE'S bicycle being crucial to WHW's time alibi...but not if WALLACE knew the deed was scheduled for lets say 7.30 pm when was in Menlove Gardens..he could have expected a top home office pathologist to some idea of when she died surely!! The way the public sympathy swung one way & then the other,is I suppose,predictable...but if Wallace knew he only had a year or two left anyway would he have been bothered?Initially he had great support from the PRU.,work collegues & friends & of course his brother JOSEPH but Joe Public thought if the police have arrested him it must mean he killed his wife,then when he was sentenced to death on next to no evidence,opinion swung strongly in favour of WALLACE.But of course when he was finally reprieved,it was perceived that he had got away with murder... I suppose if WHW hated JULIA enough to want her dead,cynically perhaps,MARK,but his diary note about "JULIA would have loved it here in the Wirral Bungalow" might have had been suffixed "He He !!"........ I agree with you GED about surely he could have found an easier, less risky way of getting rid of poor JULIA..but the fact remains SOMEBODY she knew, smashed her head in & it certainly wasnt WHW directly..so who else & why?Whoever it was was VERY VERY lucky on so many counts! If we all agree(?) that PARRY was QUALTROUGH then right away we have considerably reduced the possiblities...it wasnt just a random murder or a burglary that went wrong..it was planned.....IAN(FJumble)

The problem with the time though Ian is that I think it was Murphy who re-enacts it with precision that Wallace was upstairs as Close knocked, then when he (Close) leaves, he commits the murder naked. It seems to me to conveniently fit the scenario rather than the fact. If Alan Close would have called at 6pm Wallace wouldn't have been in - he would have been by Cabbage Hall or even on his way from Clubmoor. There would not have been anyone else that would have seen Julia from say 6pm until Wallace left at 6.45pm thereby having a full three quarters of an hour to account for. Yes, I suppose he could have left earlier but I think it doesn't justify the term 'precision timing.'
I can't believe the 50th anniversary was 30 years ago - it seems like last week!