Julia Wallace Murder Case

[Spike]

Well Well Well

Ged and Mark

I got the time yesterday to read it all and flippin fantastic is what I say

myself I have read and heard the story a few times but never knew the ins and outs. So reading this has really given me a whole lot more info. It makes you wonder, it really does. Just who did it? Will we ever know? So sad that Julia has not got justice after 80 years. I thought the police would have grilled Parry even if he had an alibi? Though maybe the garage lad was fibbing? who knows?

A great read lads. again well done. A lot of work has gone into that and it shows.I now know a lot more about this case, Thank you both.

[Spike]

I cant figure out what they had to charge Wallace with the murder? Even more stunned it went to court and he was found guilty. Not saying he had no part in it like.

[Ged]

This is what the defence argued. It was all circumstantial and nothing concrete. The judge more or less pointed, but not directed the jury to find him innocent unless no other person could have done it. The stupid jury, possibly influenced by local newspaper reporting which wasn't restricted back then, may have been influenced/prejudiced which the defence mentioned during the appeal.

Mark will be on air with others about now.

[underworld]

I havent read all of this thread and promise myself to do so. Ive got the Roger Wilks book and read it years ago. I am currenty threequarters of the way through "The Killing of Julia Wallace". The thing that striles me is that Wallace did seem to make sure that he had been seen in the Menlove Gardens area by various people including a Policeman and the shop keeper etc. He also made sure that the Tram driver knew of his presence and where he wanted to go. Then there is an issue over the stiffness of his back garden gate bolt etc. I am not convinced of Wallaces innocence but I havent read enough yet. Just my thoughts.

[Ged]

It was part of the prosecution that he overdid the alibi bit, particularly as he mentioned to the tram conductors that he was a stranger to the Allerton area yet had practised violin at his Pru Superintendants house (Joseph Crewe) and has visited Calderstones park with Julia and visited sister-in-law Amy on Ullet Rd at the Penny lane roundabout end.

However 7.06pm is a fixed time that he was on board the tram and 6.35ish is the time milk boy Alan Close was the last known person to see Julia alive. The 'Anfield harriers' police re-enactment team also found it difficult to make the alleged route in time - without running.

If John Parkes statement is true, Parry certainly had some part in it but he did have an alibi.

[burkhilly]

If John Parkes statement is true, Parry certainly had some part in it but he did have an alibi.

Ged I thought Parry's alibi was disproved during the Radio City Broadcast, in that Lily said he hadn't been in her house at a crucial time.

(I just managed to catch the last two minutes of Mark's appearance on the Billy Butler show, so will hopefully catch up later.)

[IAN DAVID FRYER]

GED I thought MARK did well with some pretty inane questions..ie the cat!! Also the blood-clot & perhaps over asking about Menlove Gdns EAST...but like just about everything in the case it can go both ways.One small blood clot on a toilet rim doesnt prove anything as McFaul had only the vaguest idea about time of death & how long the clot had been there,anyway!! I agree with MARK that it was probably plod. Also,I thought GOODMAN dealt with the overasking very well in his piece on Radio City.As it happened,I know Ullet Road quite well,but I didnt have a clue where the Menlove Gardens area was till I sought it out,some years ago.IAN (FJumble)

[Ged]

Ged I thought Parry's alibi was disproved during the Radio City Broadcast, in that Lily said he hadn't been in her house at a crucial time.

(I just managed to catch the last two minutes of Mark's appearance on the Billy Butler show, so will hopefully catch up later.)

Lily Lloyd in 1933, after Wallace's death was jilted by Parry whom she was engaged to. She went to Hector Munro to say she'd lied about her alibi on the murder night but as she'd only ever given him an alibi for 9pm + anyway, it didn't matter. His alibi for 6.35pm to Wallace's arrival back home just before 9pm is what was crucial.

---------- Post added at 05:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:58 PM ----------

GED I thought MARK did well with some pretty inane questions..ie the cat!! Also the blood-clot & perhaps over asking about Menlove Gdns EAST...but like just about everything in the case it can go both ways.One small blood clot on a toilet rim doesnt prove anything as McFaul had only the vaguest idea about time of death & how long the clot had been there,anyway!! I agree with MARK that it was probably plod. Also,I thought GOODMAN dealt with the overasking very well in his piece on Radio City.As it happened,I know Ullet Road quite well,but I didnt have a clue where the Menlove Gardens area was till I sought it out,some years ago.IAN (FJumble)

I agree Ian. Even Joseph Crewe and Samuel Beattie were unaware of the Menlove Gardens East existence or not and they lived around there.

[burkhilly]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console...ler_19_01_2011


Just listened. Well done Mark.


Still believe Mr Wallace was innocent.

[Mark R]

Many thanks everyone

[underworld]

It was part of the prosecution that he overdid the alibi bit, particularly as he mentioned to the tram conductors that he was a stranger to the Allerton area yet had practised violin at his Pru Superintendants house (Joseph Crewe) and has visited Calderstones park with Julia and visited sister-in-law Amy on Ullet Rd at the Penny lane roundabout end.

However 7.06pm is a fixed time that he was on board the tram and 6.35ish is the time milk boy Alan Close was the last known person to see Julia alive. The 'Anfield harriers' police re-enactment team also found it difficult to make the alleged route in time - without running.

If John Parkes statement is true, Parry certainly had some part in it but he did have an alibi.

But did the milk boy not make a statement to the Police over a week later because he was ill yet seems to remember the precise time that he noticed the time that he was in the immediate area?

---------- Post added at 08:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:05 PM ----------

Hector Munro circa 1924

[Mark R]

No Underworld - he went to 29 Wolverton street the night after the killing and notified them that he saw Mrs Wallace at about 6.45pm then changed it to 'about 6.30.' Doug Metcalf, Kenneth Caird, and Al Wildman all told him to notify the police. Is that photo Hector Munro? Great picture thanks!

[underworld]

Yes it is Hector Munro Mark. If you have a photo of Hubert Moore I would dearly love to see it. But the milk boy didnt give a written statement till a week later if my memory serves me right.

Did you know that William Predergast who wrote the books that Z cars was based on, was one of the "Anfield Harriers"?

[IAN DAVID FRYER]

Allan Close,who,of course, was later tragically killed in WW2,was originally quite certain about the time JULIA took in the milk & told his friends so..it was only when the police put the pressure on the 14 year old boy that he was persuaded to move the time back to 6.30ish to fit the police theory(their ONLY theory) that WHW must have been responsible. I have been wondering why the police were apparently interested in Parry's car(the Little Swift of John Parkes) I read that Parry's sister was adamant that the police went through all his belongings with a fine tooth comb including the car & the lining of his suite..but what significance could the Police see in his car,it wasnt as though the corpse had been dumped? Is there any evidence that the police did this apart from his naturally defensive sister??
On the notion that WHW organised the killing,I dont think PARRY/MARSDEN can be eliminated purely on the grounds that WHW named them in his police statement at the outset.He named another 15 people as well & it would have looked very suspicious if he had ommitted those 2 from the list...especially if he was sure they both had watertight alibis!More plausible to tell the police surely? IAN(FJumble)

[Ged]

Yes, Holy Trinity clock was checked by one of the boys on his rounds as he did do each day to see how he was doing for time. There's little doubt this didn't fit in the with the police's notions. It is in Goodman's book that mentions a conversation after the trial between Harry Bailey and Sydney Schofield Allenwhereby Bailey said that when I retire, i'll tell you something about the investigation that will interest you immensely. In the spring of 1981, the son of the det sgt involved in the case said his father told him Parry was a suspect from the start and his house and car was turned over - if the car was so thoroughly examined before Parkes' statement - then why?