Julia Wallace Murder Case

[Acrosstheuniverse]

Okay thanks to both of you. Glad to have some British jargon down!

Mark, you make some very good points. Have you read Wallace the final Verdict though by Richard Wilkes? There does seem to be a very good case made against Richard Gordon Parry. I am not convinced of the whole of John Parkes testimony...he was an old man who had never come forward and was now doing so on a hospital bed?!? But, some aspects of his story about Parry do ring true. Evn discounting Parkes though the book does raise some points against Parry. I think the author wants you to believe he did it...I am not persuaded he committed the actual murder but I am somewhat persuaded he made the Qualtrough phone call. What are your thoughts about this?

Again, just wanted to add I haven't seen enough evidence against anyone that I would convict on a jury.

[Mark R]

Yes, I have read Wilkes' book. It is persuasive and he makes some excellent points. I have to say that Parkes did actually mention the garage/bloody glove in Parry's car at the time of the murder. Parkes notified the owners of the garage (Wilf & Dolly Atkinson and their sons) at the time and Parkes claimed that DSI Moore interviewed him but refused to believe Parkes' testimony. I have accessed the police files and there is nothing in it regarding Parkes' interview with Moore. Saying that, it could have disappeared or not even been recorded or it never happened.
I don't know if you have read James Murphy's excellent The Murder of Julia Wallace? He gives Parry a possible alibi for the evening of the 19th January, 1931 at the approximate time of the 'Qualtrough' phone call. There is the possibility though that the time of Parry's alibi wasn't as cast-iron as is made out by Murphy.

Here's a photo of Atkinson's garage (4th May 2009):

[Acrosstheuniverse]

wow Mark, cool photo. Looks different than I thought it would, the architecture and what I can tell of that part of town does not look too far off from an area in Brooklyn that I lived in for awhile growing up. I wonder if the garage and that area of town is relatively unchanged in the past 75-80 years. I found it kind of funny that Parry rifled thru coats there. He seems to have been a hilarious British scoundrel of the sort one would encounter in a stage production of Oliver Twist.

You are right about Parkes claiming he came forward; my error. Still seems that aspects of his story were quite farfetched. (The oilskin cape? Really?!?)

As for the book, I have not read it. It is quite hard to get books on the Wallace case in America. I remember seeing a copy on Amazon for like 300 bucks or something that was a crime in and of itself. I am assuming you consider it to be a well written book? I know that Murphy concludes Wallace was guilty... (I find Wallace commiting the actual murder very implausible) although this says nothing of the research he did and how well the book was written. I would love to read it at some point, but cannot for the life of me seem to get my hands on it.

I agree this case has an incredible amount of mystery and intrigue surrounding it.

[Mark R]

I used to walk past that garage with my mum when I was a kid and didn't know the supposed significance of it at the time. It was only in 1981 that it came to a wider audience (regarding Parry & Parkes). I was stunned when I saw it and heard of its connection with the Wallace Case. I don't know if you have seen the photo of Parry & Lily Lloyd at the school play? (It is in Wilkes' book). I went to Lister Drive school myself in the 1970's so that was another connection!! Interesting to hear that the garage area looks like Brooklyn!! I think it retains a lot of its character (apart from the metal shutters on the front) and also an added side building.

Yes, Parry does seem to have been a bit of a rogue. He was in trouble with the authorities from a young age. He was going to school one day when he pushed a wall over. The builders were annoyed at who the culprit was so they kept a look out and they found out that it was a young Parry doing it on his way to school. Yes, the oilskins/thigh high boots seems a bit far-fetched. I think the blood would drip off such a material and there would be traces of it through 29 Wolverton Street.

Yes, the Murphy book is well written and researched but he does speculate on a lot of things, and some of it is sheer supposition...If I were you, I would wait. Bluecoat Publishers here in Liverpool might reprint Murphy's book. I can tell you now that $300 is a lot of money. Bluecoat do have a habit of reprinting previous books.

[Acrosstheuniverse]

Mark, got to head to bed soon (after 3 here in California, would be after 6 if I was home in NYC).

Got a few minutes left, so onto it..

I saw that photo (they must be around 13?). You can tell in that photo Lily Lloyd would grow into a very attractive woman. I also stumbled upon an apparently rare photo of Parry in his late teens which I think was for a drama playbill or headshot etc. (It's at the bottom of the article which is in Spanish)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_neT8fdNk1L...y+(cuadro).jpg

Awesome that you went to Lister Drive School..did you have a school yearbook? Was it a k-12 school? (I know it burned down recently.) I was in contact with a woman who claimed her grandmother had a yearbook with Lily Lloyd in it. I think she was hot air though because she disappeared when I asked her for proof .

I will wait to read Murphy's book when it is at a price that is not that exorbitant. I would be willing to pay quite a bit though for some rare books on the Wallace case, but not 300 dollars. The only books I've read are the Killing of Julia Wallace and The Final Verdict which John generously sent me in pdf format. How he got the books into pdf I have no idea! I do think I have a pretty good knowledge of most of the books general direction from reading both this forum and the Casebook forum on Wallace.

[Mark R]

Yes, that photo of Parry is a good one. Goodman had that in his reprinted book in 1987.

I have to say that we didn't have a yearbook when I went to Lister Drive (or if we did, I never received one ). It was a primary school (age from 5-11)
That doesn't surprise me that you never heard from the lady again!!

[Acrosstheuniverse]

Mark, just a thought...if the Anfield Housebreaker was behind it, he must have known much about Wallace...at least enough to know his collection habits and that he would have most money on a Tuesday (or most Tuesdays). And it appears that it is someone that Julia knew reasonably well. This does seem to rule out a lot of people and take away from a "random thief" scenario.

Tom Slemen's theory always struck me as crackpot nonsense...can't believe JSJ could have done it for numerous reasons. What do you think about that?

[underworld]

Okay thanks to both of you. Glad to have some British jargon down!

Mark, you make some very good points. Have you read Wallace the final Verdict though by Richard Wilkes? There does seem to be a very good case made against Richard Gordon Parry. I am not convinced of the whole of John Parkes testimony...he was an old man who had never come forward and was now doing so on a hospital bed?!? But, some aspects of his story about Parry do ring true. Evn discounting Parkes though the book does raise some points against Parry. I think the author wants you to believe he did it...I am not persuaded he committed the actual murder but I am somewhat persuaded he made the Qualtrough phone call. What are your thoughts about this?

Again, just wanted to add I haven't seen enough evidence against anyone that I would convict on a jury.

I have this book. Didn't realise it was worth that sort of money!

[Ged]

''Mark R, you seem to be a very well respected poster here and have a vast knowledge of this case. Why do you find this theory bunk? The fact Wallace pointed the finger at Parry and Marsden doesn't seem strange at all to me. After all, it might stand out if he DIDN'T. He could have told them to have a perfect alibi ready because he would mention them as suspects.''

Hello Acrossthe universe.

I agree that Mark is THE MAN.

I would suggest the only perfect alibi is a real one. If he has a real one then Parry couldn't have done it - but does he have a real one?

He was late arriving at Lily Lloyds on the night of the murder which she duly noted. Mark, did the police ever take Parry's possible involvement seriously enough to check with Hignetts that he did go there for his accumulator, you would think that possibly WHW defence team would check out all possibilities on all other possible suspects.

Parkes also mentioned Parry telling him he disposed of an iron down a grid outside a doctors on Priory Road. I wonder?

Hope i've got those sequence of events on the murder night right Mark. Was it the night of the 19th that Lily Lloyd gave an alibi for Parry then later retracted it when they'd split up - but even that could be because of a woman scorned etc....

[Mark R]

Acrosstheuniverse:

Regarding the Johnston theory...I've never been convinced it was them. The idea that they could monitor Wallace's movements and do other things are a possibility but I don't think it was them. The arguments Tom Slemen put forward that Julia was asleep in the front room, putting the heater on to keep warm (whilst she had a cold) is, to me anyway, not likely. Surely she would have been better (and warmer?) in the back kitchen/room were the range was? Or possibly even in bed? If I remember correctly, Slemen stated that Johnston killed her not for the money, but for some item that was in the Wallace house. Slemen alluded to it being something that would be detrimental to Johnston and that Johnston was eager to get his hands on it, whatever it was...I think he also stated that the Johnston's were watching the movements of WHW and Julia on the evening of the 20th January, and that Wallace walked up the entry with Julia. The Johnston's believed that Julia had gone out with Wallace on his errand to Menlove Gardens. this is not consistent with the facts. Wallace said that Julia went to the back door and 'closed the door behind me.' On the other hand if Wallace was guilty, then Julia was dead at this time so she couldn't have been in the yard/entry. It makes no sense that Julia walked up the entry with Wallace. I think maybe that idea arose from Fred Williams (the first policeman on the scene) who claimed that Wallace had said to him that Julia walked down the entry with him. I believe PC Williams misheard (or misconstrued) what Wallace said/meant.
I think Slemen also claimed that Johnston was the elusive 'Housebreaker'...

Ged you flatter me!! Murphy claims the police followed up Parry's 'alibis.' I have to say that I never found anything of Parry's statement(s) among the Police Files...The alibi Lily Lloyd gave Parry was for the murder night (20th) Ged. I think she said that he picked her up about 9.00pm at the Clubmoor cinema. You are right of course - he could have been late on the evening before. Lily Lloyd's mother gave Parry an alibi in the fact that he visited her house (7 Missouri Road) at about 7.15 on the 19th. The phone call from Box 1627 was logged at between 7.15-7.24. But Mrs. Lloyd could have been wrong in her testimony. People can get times wrong. Perfect example of this is Sidney Hubert Green's remark that he saw WHW near MG West at about 7.10. This is impossible - Wallace was travelling along Smithdown Road at this time. He alighted on the corner of Menlove Gardens West at 7.20pm...
Yes, you would think the Wallace defence team would have looked for other possibilities. I think though in all their wisdom, the main thing was getting Wallace off with it more than another theory, but then again, Roland Oliver did make the assumption that it could have been somebody else. One thing I have always found intriguing is the fact that Hubert Moore's daughter Imelda was Parry's fathers' secretary...
Yes, Parkes' mention of the iron bar...I wonder if it is (still???) there?!!

Great photos Lindylou. I was in Clubmoor last week. The area still looks very oldie-worldie

[Acrosstheuniverse]

I have managed to get a pdf of The Murder of Julia Wallace and read thru it today (only had about 15 minutes) but was able to look thru some of the most pertinent parts. I must say while the book is well written and provides a thorough digestion of the case there are clear places where Murphy appears prejudiced to his conclusion and obfuscates facts he must have in order to promote his hypothesis. The timing for the murder he proposes is ridiculous.

[Ged]

Yes.

Didn't they nickname the coppers doing the replicated Wallace walk from Wolverton St to the corner of Belmont Rd/West Derby Road the Anfield Harriers or something as they had to run it in the end to make the timings possible.

Whilst it's true that any murderer could have just done it on the Monday when they knew Wallace would be at the Chess club, if they wanted to frame Wallace, they'd have to make the Qualtrough phone call from Wallaces' local phone box making sure it was traceable (though that could have been accidental and incidental when petty thief 'Parry' tried to con the exchange out of the cost of the call by saying he pressed button 'A' when in fact he'd pressed 'B'.

Giving him a bum steer as in a none existant address would ensure he was well out of the way for a time.

[Mark R]

I have managed to get a pdf of The Murder of Julia Wallace and read thru it today (only had about 15 minutes) but was able to look thru some of the most pertinent parts. I must say while the book is well written and provides a thorough digestion of the case there are clear places where Murphy appears prejudiced to his conclusion and obfuscates facts he must have in order to promote his hypothesis. The timing for the murder he proposes is ridiculous.

I have read Murphy's book a few times - he makes some valid and excellent points. There were no traces the bath had been used...also MacFall's and Pierce's idea that Wallace could have avoided blood spatter - this I also believe is a ridiculous assumption...

Yes Ged. They were christened the 'Anfield Harriers' and also 'Spring-heeled Jacks' I have always thought 'Q' using Box 1627 to be in Wallace's favour. Why he (Wallace) would use a phone in the Anfield area beggars belief. Murphy claims that Wallace had no choice to use it as it was 'dark and isolated' then goes on to say that Wallace couldn't use a call box near the chess club as it would be suspicious if he was seen...This is contradictory. Surely there was more chance of Wallace being recognised in his own area than one less conspicuous with him?

[Ged]

Only one word to say to all of that 'Agreed'.

So then.

Was it Parry, Marsden, Johnston, the anfield house breaker?

And if either of the first two - were they in collusion with Wallace?

Let's narrow it down.

[Mark R]

Only one word to say to all of that 'Agreed'.

So then.

Was it Parry, Marsden, Johnston, the anfield house breaker?

And if either of the first two - were they in collusion with Wallace?

Let's narrow it down.

Or, it could have been any of the 560 people on Wallace's round
(Jeez, my relatives were amongst that lot and I think Linylou's were as well)