Obama Speaking in Front of the Turkey Eagle (CTG)

[ChrisGeorge]

Obama Speaking in Front of the Turkey Eagle

President Obama is addressing the nation,
speaking to the cadets at West Point,
talking in front of a blue eagle flag,
the shield over the eagle chest, a target,
a barber's pole of blood and bandages.
(Franklin wanted the bird to be a turkey;
other Fathers chose the steel-talon eagle.
We savor Ben's passion each Thanksgiving.)
President Obama is counting the sacrifices:
all the letters he must write to each and
every family -- the families of the fallen,
all serving multiple tours, moving targets,
boots shuffling in the dust to their destiny.
President Obama is addressing the families
sitting with the corpses of their loved ones.

Christopher T. George

[dazza]

Very good Chris,

Turkeys are believed to have first been brought to Britain in 1526 by Yorkshireman William Strickland - he acquired six birds from American Indian traders on his travels and sold them for tuppence each in Bristol. Although, I can't confirm the first 'Turkey' sighting in Liverpool - I think it's safe to assume it was non of the original six, but hey - you never know? Turkeys [I think] originally came from Mexico

A bird of the Americas, and more useful than an Eagle, as thousands of dinner tables will confirm around the third week in November.

I've just recently visited Franklin's House, in 36 Craven Street, London - which was a kind of first US embassy in London, although it would have been known as the American Colonies during his tenure there 1757-1775 [1776 - presumably he was off to put his 'John Hancock' on the DOI?]

http://www.benjaminfranklinhouse.org...ns/default.htm

[ChrisGeorge]

Very good Chris,

Turkeys are believed to have first been brought to Britain in 1526 by Yorkshireman William Strickland - he acquired six birds from American Indian traders on his travels and sold them for tuppence each in Bristol. Although, I can't confirm the first 'Turkey' sighting in Liverpool - I think it's safe to assume it was non of the original six, but hey - you never know? Turkeys [I think] originally came from Mexico

A bird of the Americas, and more useful than an Eagle, as thousands of dinner tables will confirm around the third week in November.

I've just recently visited Franklin's House, in 36 Craven Street, London - which was a kind of first US embassy in London, although it would have been known as the American Colonies during his tenure there 1757-1775 [1776 - presumably he was off to put his 'John Hancock' on the DOI?]

http://www.benjaminfranklinhouse.org...ns/default.htm

Thanks, dazza. Yes Franklin did put his "John Hancock" on the Declaration of Independence. I believe I am right in saying that he spent most of the American Revolution in Paris.

Thanks for those great details on the history of the turkey being brought to Europe and also on Franklin's House.

C

[dazza]

Paris, yes there was lots of distractions there - he liked the ladies.

Afghanistan, out in 18 months - well we'll see come 1st June 2011? The problem is you can't banish corruption that easily. I agree something has to be done, and pulling out right now would be irresponsible, in view of the recent election fraud...

People build a city more quickly if there hearts and minds are in it. If not, well the target may be nearer 18 years? What price security, indeed?
Sorry, I know this is the Creative quarter, so I'll stop right here...

[ChrisGeorge]

Quite alright, Dazza. The poem obviously is political so the conversation or whatever reactions it provokes are pertinent to the thread. There is an interesting commentator on CNN named Michael Ware, an Australian by his accent, and he was commenting after Obama's speech that Afghanistan is hopelessly corrupt and that graft and corruption are a way of life there. The Yanks will have to see what can be done in circa 18 months. Filmmaker Michael Moore was on Larry King commenting that they should get out now and that more lives and treasure will be lost, for no real result. Of course that could be said of both Iraq and Afghanistan. One commentator early on 2002-2003 noted that a war against terrorism is basically a secret war, not a shoot-em-up send in the troops war, but of course Bush had to show he was "doing something" which led to the present mess, economically and also in terms of deaths and some 30,000 wounded in Afghanistan alone.

As for Ben Franklin, he was not called the Father of His Country for nothing.

Chris

[dazza]

As for Ben Franklin, he was not called the Father of His Country for nothing.

Ha ha, right! I heard he got struck by lightning......he must have been dealing with all that surplus electricity and energy running around his system???

"Bush had to show he was "doing something""......I agree, the UN was only a thread of cotton holding back the knee jerk [typical] response of his administration. As always [UK, also] there's the official reason for doing things, and then there's the truth.

[ChrisGeorge]

"Bush had to show he was "doing something""......I agree, the UN was only a thread of cotton holding back the knee jerk [typical] response of his administration. As always [UK, also] there's the official reason for doing things, and then there's the truth.

Over at JtR Forums somebody started a thread entitled "Those wild and crazy conspiracy theories" which has touched on Roswell, Pearl Harbor, the Diana conspiracy, JFK, Flight 800, etc.

What I wrote was: I don't know about the conspiracy theories that are banded around but there does seem to be better evidence that the Tonkin Gulf incident of 1965 was manufactured by the Johnson Administration to give an excuse to go to war with North Vietnam, as was the evidence over Saddam Hussein's "Weapons of Mass Destruction" presented to the world in 2002-2003 that gave the excuse for the second Gulf War and led to the mess we are in now economically.

Chris

[dazza]

......as was the evidence over Saddam Hussein's "Weapons of Mass Destruction" presented to the world in 2002-2003 that gave the excuse for the second Gulf War and led to the mess we are in now economically.

Very interesting Chris. We've currently got the Iraq War Inquiry going on here.......but sadly, there won't be any follow-up on the actual legality of going to war. It should however at least give public access to some hitherto seen information. As reported in:

The Irish Times - Tuesday, November 24, 2009, by MARK HENNESSY

"THE INQUIRY into the Iraq invasion, which begins in London tomorrow, will not adjudicate on whether it was legal or not, its head, former top civil servant Sir John Chilcot, has said.

The inquiry, which will not report until the end of 2010, will focus on whether it was ?a wise decision, was it well-taken, was it founded on good advice and good information and analysis?, he said"...the article continues here.

D.

[ChrisGeorge]

Thanks, dazza. When you think about it, inasmuch as lives were lost and men, and presumably women, maimed for life. . . .

C

[pablo42]

Over at JtR Forums somebody started a thread entitled "Those wild and crazy conspiracy theories" which has touched on Roswell, Pearl Harbor, the Diana conspiracy, JFK, Flight 800, etc.

What I wrote was: I don't know about the conspiracy theories that are banded around but there does seem to be better evidence that the Tonkin Gulf incident of 1965 was manufactured by the Johnson Administration to give an excuse to go to war with North Vietnam, as was the evidence over Saddam Hussein's "Weapons of Mass Destruction" presented to the world in 2002-2003 that gave the excuse for the second Gulf War and led to the mess we are in now economically.

Chris

That's true Chris. They even lied to Congress over the Tonkin incident. The pretext for the Vietnam War. Have a look on the net for Operation Northwoods. This was another black bag operation that some of the Head Sheds balked at. We aint seen nothing yet.

[pablo42]

Quite alright, Dazza. The poem obviously is political so the conversation or whatever reactions it provokes are pertinent to the thread. There is an interesting commentator on CNN named Michael Ware, an Australian by his accent, and he was commenting after Obama's speech that Afghanistan is hopelessly corrupt and that graft and corruption are a way of life there. The Yanks will have to see what can be done in circa 18 months. Filmmaker Michael Moore was on Larry King commenting that they should get out now and that more lives and treasure will be lost, for no real result. Of course that could be said of both Iraq and Afghanistan. One commentator early on 2002-2003 noted that a war against terrorism is basically a secret war, not a shoot-em-up send in the troops war, but of course Bush had to show he was "doing something" which led to the present mess, economically and also in terms of deaths and some 30,000 wounded in Afghanistan alone.

As for Ben Franklin, he was not called the Father of His Country for nothing.

Chris

I was in Afghanistan in the mid eighties. They are pretty good at what they do, but a lot of their success is to do with the terrain. Pop over to the next valey and no one can see you. Helicopters struggle cos of the altitude, better at lower altitudes.

I thought Benjamin Franklin wanted the snake as an emblem of America. Cos if you trod on it you'd know about it. Then that was changed because of the Adam and Eve story.