What's so great about Old Buildings?

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11-12-2009
pablo42

The one thing that makes a city fantastic is diversity. I personnally love the art nouveau style of buildings and they are quite recent.
11-12-2009
petromax

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waterways

It is clear you comment on matters and don't know the basics of, not only that form firm opinions on - when you have been pointed to where the information is with easy explanations a number of times. You get like a stuck record refusing to believe what you have conditioned yourself to believe over the years.

You cannot begin to understand what any of us knows or doesn't know. I don't need to read screeds of other people's writing simply because you are either too lazy or are unable to put together a cogent argument of your own. At best, your mode of argument is idle and contemptuous.

I am already aware of most all the stuff you put up as your 'unexpected but magnificent findings'. You add nothing to this 'manna from heaven' but rather you take something away. I don't need to read it again with an extra gloss of tosh from you. It is clear that you either misconstrue or over-select the information you look at; you ignore any 'fact' that does not support your too-hastily formed opinion; and you have no respect for anyone else's point of view. This is no basis for reasoned and informed debate ie., it's half-arsed.

Oh, and by the way - please try to write in English, if at all.
11-12-2009
pablo42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waterways

Unfortunately all new buildings cannot be iconic as they do not have the site for it. Look at around Castle St. Many if the buildings were Victoria speculative buildings and were not meant to make a statement. The same can be said for Lord St/Church St, the post WW2 buildings. OK they replaced bombed buildings but they were still speculative and built to a price, as were the Victorian buildings.

Beetham East, Alex Tower, the museum and Unity are all good looking modern buildings, as wil be the black shapes at man Island. Brunswick Quay Tower could have been with us but the arrogant city thought the world was lining up to build in Liverpool and rejected it. Now they say high rises can be built there.

Brunswick Quay

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/watercity...ickQuays-3.jpg
This superb building built by a local man, would have been built by now if not rejected.

Now I think that's a great building.
11-12-2009
petromax

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waterways

...This superb building built by a local man, would have been built by now if not rejected.[/SIZE][/I][/B]

Ian Simpson Architect, "was born and brought up in Manchester. He studied architecture at Liverpool Polytechnic and after he completed his studies he left to work in London with Foster and Parters". More latterly, he worked for 'design gurus' (not) BDP in Manchester and he has a penthouse flat there being the whole top floor of the Beetham Tower; often referred to as "Manchester's Architect". Local indeed.

The Beetham Tower is a rip-off of a tower of French Architect Dominic Perrault designed in the 80s which itself was based on Christmas/Easter island figures. This design for Brunswick Tower is typical of his borrowed and simplistic 'one idea' approach (coo, it looks like a wind surfer - how appropriate! - it's by a river you know) and adds nothing to the immediate surroundings (the effect on the immediate micro-climate would have been disastrous and the landscaping is monstrous) or the immediate neighbourhood. Also, it would have nailed forever the Brunswick Dock gates.

It is not as slim and elegant as this view suggests. In fact it would have been a bit of a fat b*stard (have you seen the plans??). Worse still, at such a height, it would have been in the wrong place; detracting as it would have from the natural centre of gravity and general composition of the waterfront at the Pier Head and the [recently adopted and] carefully considered guidelines designed to protect it. Apart from that...!
11-12-2009
pablo42

Have you two got something going on?
11-12-2009
Ged

I'm not a great fan of that. It looks like the wing of a very big plane has fell off and planted itself into the ground. Has anyone ever seen the crude top floor extension to an old building on North John St, Sacrilege.
11-12-2009
pablo42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ged

I'm not a great fan of that. It looks like the wing of a very big plane has fell off and planted itself into the ground. Has anyone ever seen the crude top floor extension to an old building on North John St, Sacrilege.

Where is that Ged? When me camera comes I'll take a photie.
11-12-2009
Ged

On North John street - just look up. A modern square box on an otherwise interesting building like most are in that area.
11-12-2009
pablo42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ged

On North John street - just look up. A modern square box on an otherwise interesting building like most are in that area.

When me camera comes I'll be there. Unless Joe beats me there.
11-12-2009
kevin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waterways

To openly a broadly state that all new buildings are HORRIBLE is silly, just silly.

More or less silly than your grammar? We all make mistakes when posting to forums but you seem to be turning it into an art form.
11-12-2009
pablo42

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevin

More or less silly than your grammar? We all make mistakes when posting to forums but you seem to be turning it into an art form.

now now Kevin...

These two guys get so personal, it's only a matter of opinion. I thought they were two cantankerous old guys, but I don't think they are. Funny.
11-12-2009
kevin

Quote:

Originally Posted by pablo42

now now Kevin...

These two guys get so personal, it's only a matter of opinion. I thought they were two cantankerous old guys, but I don't think they are. Funny.

He started it Miss!
11-12-2009
pablo42

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevin

He started it Miss!

We had a saying in the Army, don't mess with the snipers. I was a sniper.

Just have patience, they'll bob their head up...
11-12-2009
kevin

Quote:

Originally Posted by pablo42

We had a saying in the Army, don't mess with the snipers. I was a sniper.

Just have patience, they'll bob their head up...

I'd have been a good sniper - I've endless patience in waiting for the opportune moment for payback!
11-12-2009
pablo42

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevin

I'd have been a good sniper - I've endless patience in waiting for the opportune moment for payback!

Ha, life's too short Kevin. I stopped paying back when I was a boy. I'm a great believer in what goes around comes around. People get paid back from the most unlikliest places. If you do someone harm, someone else will do you harm. That's my creed. It generally works for me, cept for the lottery.
11-12-2009
Spike

I still think they are HORRIBLE, that just my opinion though.
11-12-2009
kevin

Quote:

Originally Posted by pablo42

Ha, life's too short Kevin. I stopped paying back when I was a boy. I'm a great believer in what goes around comes around. People get paid back from the most unlikliest places. If you do someone harm, someone else will do you harm. That's my creed. It generally works for me, cept for the lottery.

Depends. I can let an ENORMOUS amount go and it's rather hard to upset me - you really have to work at it. But once I do get wound up there's not much I won't do - angry as much because they've managed to upset me rather than because of what they've done.

Example - which I might have mentioned before. A builder working on the next house damaged part of my roof and it was letting a little water in. After 12 months of complaints he'd done nothing about it. Found out he lived on an estate about two miles away. Printed off two hundred posters with the heading (name changed):

John Williams - builder, roofer, plasterer and part-time John Wayne impersonator (cowboy). Then gave details about my gripe.

Went round at 6.00am on a Sunday morning and pasted an A3 version of the poster across his works van, and dropped A4 versions through all 200 letterboxes on his estate. By 9.00 he was banging on my door threatening me - ended up with him locking himself in his van!
By 9.00am on the Monday he had two men around to finally repair the damage.

The story isn't really relevant to this thread, except as an example of how long it takes to upset me.

Not likely to happen on a forum though - just enjoy sniping occasionally.
11-12-2009
pablo42

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevin

Depends. I can let an ENORMOUS amount go and it's rather hard to upset me - you really have to work at it. But once I do get wound up there's not much I won't do - angry as much because they've managed to upset me rather than because of what they've done.

Example - which I might have mentioned before. A builder working on the next house damaged part of my roof and it was letting a little water in. After 12 months of complaints he'd done nothing about it. Found out he lived on an estate about two miles away. Printed off two hundred posters with the heading (name changed):

John Williams - builder, roofer, plasterer and part-time John Wayne impersonator (cowboy). Then gave details about my gripe.

Went round at 6.00am on a Sunday morning and pasted an A3 version of the poster across his works van, and dropped A4 versions through all 200 letterboxes on his estate. By 9.00 he was banging on my door threatening me - ended up with him locking himself in his van!
By 9.00am on the Monday he had two men around to finally repair the damage.

The story isn't really relevant to this thread, except as an example of how long it takes to upset me.

Not likely to happen on a forum though - just enjoy sniping occasionally.

Ha, love it Kevin. Magic.
11-12-2009
pablo42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike

I still think they are HORRIBLE, that just my opinion though.

Spike, just think of your namesake. I think that's funny.
11-12-2009
Waterways

Quote:

Originally Posted by pablo42

Now I think that's a great building.

The Matalan people, a Liverpool company, were to build the Brunswick Quay Tower. It would have been built by now, before the CC. The governments chief architect commended it.

If built it would have been a catalyst for buildings around the south docks, and attracted high quality buildings. It had the reverse effect. many top developers avoid Liverpool because of it. The developers were taken through the hoops for years, which costs, and got nothing in the end. Developers do not like argumentative, difficult councils.

Now the council have said they will approve tall buildings in the south docks. The developers still own the land, which is vacant and idle. They may be waiting for a Labour council and resubmit with slight amendments. The Lib-Dems turned it down, so will always reject anything similar to save face. The developers were talking of excavating parts of Toxteth Dock and realligning the quays to expand the developments. Water attracts people, something which Peel can't understand.
11-12-2009
pablo42

I never knew anyhting of that WW. Thanks.
11-12-2009
kevin

Quote:

Originally Posted by pablo42

Spike, just think of your namesake. I think that's funny.

I'm still trying to make sense of Partsky's post:

'I was brought up in Fazakerley, over the road from the Spike',

Do those two know each other?
:rolleyes
11-12-2009
pablo42

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevin

I'm still trying to make sense of Partsky's post:

'I was brought up in Fazakerley, over the road from the Spike',

Do those two know each other?
:rolleyes

I thought it was a place. Maybe it is Spike. But why would you admit you know him.

Just kiddin' Spike.
11-12-2009
Waterways

Quote:

Originally Posted by petromax

This design for Brunswick Tower is typical of his borrowed and simplistic 'one idea' approach (coo, it looks like a wind surfer - how appropriate! - it's by a river you know) and adds nothing to the immediate surroundings (the effect on the immediate micro-climate would have been disastrous and the landscaping is monstrous) or the immediate neighbourhood. Also, it would have nailed forever the Brunswick Dock gates.

That is absolute nonsense!!! Go to the link on the tower I gave and the governments chief architect's report is there commending it. The site was ideal, where the Liverpool escarpment tails away, and at a bend in the river. Perfect location for an iconic tower, which he highlighted. The building would not be fat as the site is not that big.

I have seen the plans. The building was to look like a sail - Liverpool does have a maritime history, and this was one of the few buildings ever built in the city which reflected the maritime heritage.

You have attempted to discredit Simpson. He got to the semi-finals of the World Trade Centre replacement. He is a world-renowned architect. And he was educated in Liverpool, so local connections.

The Brunswick Quay Tower was an iconic design and when these proposals come up you do not reject them - especially a poor city like Liverpool.
11-12-2009
Waterways

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevin

More or less silly than your grammar? We all make mistakes when posting to forums but you seem to be turning it into an art form.

I do have the knack.
11-12-2009
Waterways

Quote:

Originally Posted by pablo42

Ha, life's too short Kevin. I stopped paying back when I was a boy. I'm a great believer in what goes around comes around. People get paid back from the most unlikliest places. If you do someone harm, someone else will do you harm. That's my creed. It generally works for me, cept for the lottery.

So you believe in karma.
11-12-2009
pablo42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waterways

I do have the knack.

Many would agree WW. Love it.
11-12-2009
Waterways

Quote:

Originally Posted by pablo42

I never knew anyhting of that WW. Thanks.

A page on it:

Brunswick Quay Tower

No Vision in Liverpool

Chris Ives, the director of the developers Maro, said: "If we had gone to Manchester, Newcastle or Leeds with this building we would probably already be on site." He expands, "Liverpool city council doesn't have any vision - they can't see around corners".
11-12-2009
kevin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waterways

I do have the knack.

For all your faults, you do make me laugh at times (with humour, not scorn)
11-12-2009
pablo42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waterways

So you believe in karma.

Yes, spose it's a Bhuddist thing. Spent some time in Thailand.
11-12-2009
Waterways

Quote:

Originally Posted by pablo42

These two guys get so personal, it's only a matter of opinion. I thought they were two cantankerous old guys, but I don't think they are. Funny.

Old? Me? Nah!!!
11-12-2009
pablo42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waterways

A page on it:

Brunswick Quay Tower

No Vision in Liverpool

Chris Ives, the director of the developers Maro, said: "If we had gone to Manchester, Newcastle or Leeds with this building we would probably already be on site." He expands, "Liverpool city council doesn't have any vision - they can't see around corners".

Thanks for that WW. What a bazarre decision not to allow this.
11-12-2009
Waterways

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevin

For all your faults, you do make me laugh at times (with humour, not scorn)

I do have the knack.
11-12-2009
pablo42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waterways

Old? Me? Nah!!!

I don't think either of you are, yet you both come across that way. Reckon you both need cheering up.
11-12-2009
kevin

Quote:

Originally Posted by pablo42

I don't think either of you are, yet you both come across that way. Reckon you both need cheering up.

Force feed them an audio diet of Jeremy Kyle for 24 hours?
11-12-2009
pablo42

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevin

Force feed them an audio diet of Jeremy Kyle for 24 hours?

Hey! Love Jeremy Kyle, I'm waiting for me double helping now. Only telly I watch.
11-12-2009
kevin

Telly?
This time of day he's on the radio.
11-12-2009
pablo42

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevin

Telly?
This time of day he's on the radio.

ITV2 just started. A double episode, love it.
11-12-2009
Bernie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waterways

It is clear you comment on matters and don't know the basics of, not only that form firm opinions on - when you have been pointed to where the information is with easy explanations a number of times. You get like a stuck record refusing to believe what you have conditioned yourself to believe over the years.

Is this the pot calling the kettle or what?
11-12-2009
petromax

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waterways

That is absolute nonsense!!! ... The site was ideal, ... The building would not be fat as the site is not that big...The building was to look like a sail ...which reflected the maritime heritage.

...Simpson. He got to the semi-finals of the World Trade Centre replacement. He is a world-renowned architect. And he was educated in Liverpool, so local connections....

you do not reject...especially a poor city like Liverpool.

Can you get any 'facts' right...?

If you think the city is allowing tall buildings in the south you should read their DRAFT SPD or this from a report on their FINAL guidelines:

Originally it suggested allowing high-rise buildings in two clusters: the commercial district around Old Hall Street and the ?southern gateway? around Parliament Street.

Following consultation the city says high-rise buildings will also be allowed in Central Docks, and mid-rise buildings of between seven and 15 storeys will be allowed in the quayside area north of Salisbury Dock,

If you think a building can't be fat because the site 'is not that big', you're talking out of your...but just in case you are in any doubt as to how fat it is see this : http://www.flickr.com/photos/40936407@N07/4097660247/

Since when did the government have a 'chief architect' and why would you need to take his opinion if it did (rather than think for yourself)?

If you think the site is ideal, have you looked at how other world-renowned skylines have a degree of modelling and progression, emphasis and focus (not desperately trying-too-hard lumps stuck in the middle of nowhere)?

and if you think coming nowhere behind a very ordinary design in build-anything-as-long-as-it-makes-money New York is an achievement rather than a misplaced attempt to raise your design profile then good luck to you (and no, Libeskind is not getting built)

If you'd read his comments on the city, you wouldn't give Simpson house room let alone have him as son of the city, as empoverished as we aaaaaaaaaah.

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