Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
We use Google Chrome. Will give Firefox a try.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
We use Google Chrome. Will give Firefox a try.
Yes, it seems Radio Merseyside are wrapped up in their own cocoon Ged. Yes, you brought it to their attention and what do they do? Have to let a 'celebrity' get in on the act. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying I would offer anything but I would try and give credence to the case. It seems to have degenerated into a tabloid-type phenomenon. Great work with the site btw:PDT_Aliboronz_24:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
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Yes, I agree burkhilly. I have always been of the opinion that Wallace would have used an easier, far less complicated method of dispatching his wife. As it stands, from a Wallace point of view, it was such a messy, error strewn, possibly anything-could-have-gone-wrong way of killing. If he wanted to get rid of her, why not go on a coastal holiday and push her off a deserted clifftop? Sure, there would be a few doubters but not as many as the method used in bludgeoning.Quote:
Originally Posted by burkhilly
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I'm wondering if Gannon has been on this and other forums under a 'username' Ged. I recall someone pumping me for information about certain things in recent years. I've no problem with that but I do have a problem if it is him and he doesn't give credit or make any acknowledgement to the contributors on this forum. The people on this forum are very informed on the case. I'm sure the suspect Gannon claims to have committed it will be Joseph Marsden. If I am correct he is to claim that he was being blackmailed regarding sex...Dear oh dear - I cannot believe a 28 year old man would be having a sexual relationship with a 68-69 year old woman...Nothing new there. Marsden was a suspect at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
Very many thanks to GED & MARK R for posting the excellent THE WALLACE MURDER CASE, took me an hour to read it as its 47 pages long(just printed off a copy!) Glad the forum on the case has started up again as I thought it had just died off. I was intending to walk round Wolverton Street next Thursday at 6.30,as I did last year..it's very atmospheric even after all this time. I would prefer to reserve judgement on John Gannon's book till I have read a copy when it is published...he has certainly put a great deal of time & effort into it ..as of course you 2 have!!For an update visit [url]htmlhttp://www.beatlesliverpoolandmore.com/cold-case-closed-julia-wallace-and-the-devil-in-the-detail.html. I have always been of the opinion that WHW didnt(couldnt!!) have actually battered JULIA to death..but obviously somebody did,so I keep an open mind. I cant really see a sexual motive as a possible reason for blackmail..especially as we now know JULIA was nearly 70! But both Marsden & Parry seem to have been at least light-fingered!! FJumble
I've just posted on Casebook Forums the link for this. Hope you don't mind Ged and Mark.
Ian I bet you wish you could go back 80 years to walk Wolverton Street on the fateful Thursday evening - I know I would.
Thanks BURKHILLY..YES, I would..my interest stems from my fathers obsession with the case....he was at school at St.Margarets at the time of the murder. The thing that amazed me during last year's visit at 6.30 was that it was so quiet,so relatively unchanged & so dark!! I always had in my minds eye the lugubrious WHW shuffling out after his tea in daylight..probably influenced by dramatisations. Strange that the wonderful actor who played WHW in the Radio City WHO KILLED JULIA(the great Pete Postlethwaite) & the now Susanna Yorke who of course was a bit too glamorous as AMY WALLACE in "THE MAN FROM THE PRU" should both pass away within days of each other..more for TOM SLEMEN to make something of!!! IAN(FJumble)
Thanks Ian. No, that's fine burkhilly! Cheers.
Ian: yes, you're right re: Pete Postlethwaite & Susannah York. January 10th saw also the three year anniversary of the death of Goodman and it would have been his 80th birthday yesterday (17th). He was born three days before the murder. It must be that time of the year January!!
Spooky :)
Yes also when Wallace tracked back and turned right into Menlove Gardens West and to the corner of Dudlow Lane. He came across 23 year old clerk Sydney Hubert Green. Wallace asked him directions but Green notified Wallace that there is no ‘East’ as far as he was aware. Green was to later become the General Manager of the MDHB died in 1981 on the 50th anniversary of the murder itself which was also the very date of the Radio City Roger Wilkes re-enactment.
Having seen the site, Billy Butler's producer has been in touch with Mark and myself to go into the studio tomorrow to discuss the case between 3 and 4pm. Regretfully, due to lack of bodies in our office, I cannot make it, not even an early dart as the ferry bookings start about 3pm onwards. However, Mark, who is also busy tomorrow, can put aside some time so please listen out. He being the real man in the know out of us two anyway will be far better to listen to and i'm looking forward to hearing it on the listen again facility tomorrow night.
Spooky too that Tom Slemen's been struck down by the lurgy, incapacitating him just before he was due to go on air tomorrow...Quote:
Originally Posted by lindylou
Well Well Well
Ged and Mark :handclap::handclap::handclap::handclap:
I got the time yesterday to read it all and flippin fantastic is what I say :PDT11
myself I have read and heard the story a few times but never knew the ins and outs. So reading this has really given me a whole lot more info. It makes you wonder, it really does. Just who did it? Will we ever know? So sad that Julia has not got justice after 80 years. I thought the police would have grilled Parry even if he had an alibi? Though maybe the garage lad was fibbing? who knows?
A great read lads. again well done. A lot of work has gone into that and it shows.I now know a lot more about this case, Thank you both.
I cant figure out what they had to charge Wallace with the murder? Even more stunned it went to court and he was found guilty. Not saying he had no part in it like.
This is what the defence argued. It was all circumstantial and nothing concrete. The judge more or less pointed, but not directed the jury to find him innocent unless no other person could have done it. The stupid jury, possibly influenced by local newspaper reporting which wasn't restricted back then, may have been influenced/prejudiced which the defence mentioned during the appeal.
Mark will be on air with others about now.
I havent read all of this thread and promise myself to do so. Ive got the Roger Wilks book and read it years ago. I am currenty threequarters of the way through "The Killing of Julia Wallace". The thing that striles me is that Wallace did seem to make sure that he had been seen in the Menlove Gardens area by various people including a Policeman and the shop keeper etc. He also made sure that the Tram driver knew of his presence and where he wanted to go. Then there is an issue over the stiffness of his back garden gate bolt etc. I am not convinced of Wallaces innocence but I havent read enough yet. Just my thoughts.
It was part of the prosecution that he overdid the alibi bit, particularly as he mentioned to the tram conductors that he was a stranger to the Allerton area yet had practised violin at his Pru Superintendants house (Joseph Crewe) and has visited Calderstones park with Julia and visited sister-in-law Amy on Ullet Rd at the Penny lane roundabout end.
However 7.06pm is a fixed time that he was on board the tram and 6.35ish is the time milk boy Alan Close was the last known person to see Julia alive. The 'Anfield harriers' police re-enactment team also found it difficult to make the alleged route in time - without running.
If John Parkes statement is true, Parry certainly had some part in it but he did have an alibi.
Ged I thought Parry's alibi was disproved during the Radio City Broadcast, in that Lily said he hadn't been in her house at a crucial time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
(I just managed to catch the last two minutes of Mark's appearance on the Billy Butler show, so will hopefully catch up later.)
GED I thought MARK did well with some pretty inane questions..ie the cat!! Also the blood-clot & perhaps over asking about Menlove Gdns EAST...but like just about everything in the case it can go both ways.One small blood clot on a toilet rim doesnt prove anything as McFaul had only the vaguest idea about time of death & how long the clot had been there,anyway!! I agree with MARK that it was probably plod. Also,I thought GOODMAN dealt with the overasking very well in his piece on Radio City.As it happened,I know Ullet Road quite well,but I didnt have a clue where the Menlove Gardens area was till I sought it out,some years ago.IAN (FJumble)
Lily Lloyd in 1933, after Wallace's death was jilted by Parry whom she was engaged to. She went to Hector Munro to say she'd lied about her alibi on the murder night but as she'd only ever given him an alibi for 9pm + anyway, it didn't matter. His alibi for 6.35pm to Wallace's arrival back home just before 9pm is what was crucial.Quote:
Originally Posted by burkhilly
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I agree Ian. Even Joseph Crewe and Samuel Beattie were unaware of the Menlove Gardens East existence or not and they lived around there.Quote:
Originally Posted by IAN DAVID FRYER
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console...ler_19_01_2011
Just listened. Well done Mark.
Still believe Mr Wallace was innocent.
Many thanks everyone:PDT11
But did the milk boy not make a statement to the Police over a week later because he was ill yet seems to remember the precise time that he noticed the time that he was in the immediate area?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
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Hector Munro circa 1924
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5007/...231e00849e.jpg
No Underworld - he went to 29 Wolverton street the night after the killing and notified them that he saw Mrs Wallace at about 6.45pm then changed it to 'about 6.30.' Doug Metcalf, Kenneth Caird, and Al Wildman all told him to notify the police. Is that photo Hector Munro? Great picture thanks!
Yes it is Hector Munro Mark. If you have a photo of Hubert Moore I would dearly love to see it. But the milk boy didnt give a written statement till a week later if my memory serves me right.
Did you know that William Predergast who wrote the books that Z cars was based on, was one of the "Anfield Harriers"?
Allan Close,who,of course, was later tragically killed in WW2,was originally quite certain about the time JULIA took in the milk & told his friends so..it was only when the police put the pressure on the 14 year old boy that he was persuaded to move the time back to 6.30ish to fit the police theory(their ONLY theory) that WHW must have been responsible. I have been wondering why the police were apparently interested in Parry's car(the Little Swift of John Parkes) I read that Parry's sister was adamant that the police went through all his belongings with a fine tooth comb including the car & the lining of his suite..but what significance could the Police see in his car,it wasnt as though the corpse had been dumped? Is there any evidence that the police did this apart from his naturally defensive sister??
On the notion that WHW organised the killing,I dont think PARRY/MARSDEN can be eliminated purely on the grounds that WHW named them in his police statement at the outset.He named another 15 people as well & it would have looked very suspicious if he had ommitted those 2 from the list...especially if he was sure they both had watertight alibis!More plausible to tell the police surely? IAN(FJumble)
Yes, Holy Trinity clock was checked by one of the boys on his rounds as he did do each day to see how he was doing for time. There's little doubt this didn't fit in the with the police's notions. It is in Goodman's book that mentions a conversation after the trial between Harry Bailey and Sydney Schofield Allenwhereby Bailey said that when I retire, i'll tell you something about the investigation that will interest you immensely. In the spring of 1981, the son of the det sgt involved in the case said his father told him Parry was a suspect from the start and his house and car was turned over - if the car was so thoroughly examined before Parkes' statement - then why?
The actual statement I have of Close is not dated but there is no doubt that he informed the police at 29 WS on the following night of the murder.
Close also recreated his round with CID to time it. He took 5 minutes which I have to say is highly unlikely - it took me 5 and a half minutes and that was without the stops. It would have taken him more like 7-8 mins. He was also 20-30 minutes late due to the fact that his bicycle was broken. Yes, Prendergast was technical advisor on Z Cars and was one of the police who conducted the tram tests.
I just don't think Wallace hired a contract killer - it would take an incredible amount of trust. Was Parry, Marsden or Young that 'trustworthy?'
Listening to today's radio broadcast. I didn't know Radio Merseyside did a drama broadcast in 1991?
Vincent Burke on now. I have his dvd of it - which is a bit disappointing.
Ged - did I hear it correctly on that documentary from '91 they refer to her as 'Julie'? I couldn't hear properly at RM today but it sounded like Julie...
Is it possible to get hold of old broadcasts from Radio Merseyside anyone? Im interested in Cameo murders stuff and an interview with Charlie Connolly in th 1990s before he died.
I haven't heard that but Vincent Burkes slurring way of speaking, as atmospheric as it is, does sometimes make it difficult to hear clearly what he's saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark R
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Stephen Guy on now. He beleives WHW was guilty. If I were Billy Butler, i'd have had to ask him why he thinks that.
He's just made a mistake right away saying the Anfield Harriers fit young det sprinted from the call box. The time trials of course concentrated only on the murder night, not the call box night.
He's saying the motive was WHW finding out JW was 17 years older than him and couldn't give him a family???
I'd like to think they are available Underworld - I heard Steve Coleman today asking the women to find the date out for that doc Ged mentioned and it was all done like a flash and the sound quality of it sounded good. It would be great if they could be obtained. I'm sure the Cameo must have been covered!
GED/MARK-Billy Butler called her JULIE right at the outset & I'm sure Vincent Burke also got the wrong name!!. I recorded the 1991 Radio Merseyside documentary..stilll got it on tape..Didnt think it was much good at the time,as it didnt add anything new at all....I remember trying to pick out the various presenters voices ie Roger Pillips & the late great Bob Azurdia... I thought the RADIO CITY "Who Killed Julia" of 1981 was far superior!! IAN(FJumble)
Did he say from the call-box Ged? I didn't hear that (his section was recorded)...There you go... I think I heard him say that the only thing in Wallace's favour of innocence was Beattie saying the voice sounded nothing like Wallace's but that he could have altered his voice. As many on here know there are quite a few things in Wallace's favour and the voice on the telephone is just one of them.
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Ha ha yes Ian!! Billy Butler mentioned Bob Azurdia! Yes, the '81 Radio City programmes were great - really atmospheric.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
If any of the above is true, i'd love to know what it was - how tantilising!!!
Ah, that explains a lot - I didn't realise that both stations did a version each. I think I must have heard the Radio City one - I certainly didn't recognise much of what was broadcast today... which I found a bit disappointing.Quote:
Originally Posted by IAN DAVID FRYER
I seem to remember that the version I heard - or maybe it was the book? - made much of the fact that the investigation by the police was of a very poor quality as a result of the dropping of standards for police recruitment following the police strike when so many were sacked and they were prepared to take almost anyone... Can anybody confirm this story?
Jonathan Goodman gives an account of the Liverpool Police Strike of 1919, claiming it had negative far-reaching consequences on the subsequent force. He states that 'of a force of 1874 members 951 remained on strike and were dismissed.' Goodman also states that among the men recruited some were of questionable character and even investigated their own crimes... Don't know if it is corroborated though... Yes, you're right - it was mentioned on the Who Killed Julia? Radio City programme in 1981.
I've heard that said before John, unless indeed it was your goodself somewhere?
Certainly Hubert Moore arrived on the scene slight intoxicated, but perhaps he could be forgiven as he was off duty - or are they ever???
MacFall didn't do the rectal temperature on Julia's body, relying instead on the somewhat flawed rigor mortis method, indeed he changed his findings at least three times - that of the length of times deceased and the number of blows to the head and also from the killer would have been heavily bloodstained to not much blood on him/her at all - this is to fit in with the polices' notion of it being WHW.
Also the police used the upstairs lav before forensics were taken.
The Anfield Harriers were also resorted to running at times to make the timescale of WHW's route quicker.
Then we have the fact the Qualtrough phone call night route was never investigated - ie. could WHW have made the call and got into town on time to the chess club. This is where Stephen Guy got mixed up on the broadcast earlier.
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Just in case anyone wants to hear it again.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...er_19_01_2011/
There are a few inconsistencies re: Moore on the night of the murder. Some accounts have him in a pub, drinking the night away but I'm sure Murphy states that he was at home. If he was at home, why did it take him over an hour to get to Wolverton St? He lived on Belmont Drive only a few hundred yards away from the scene of the murder.
Thought you did brilliantly today Mark. The way you just pull names out of the hat and the number of tests done on the blob of blood etc and in contrast we have mentions of Julie, call box harriers.......
Ta Ged. It is things like that that annoy me. Yes, mistakes can be made but glaring ones like the one you mention are inexcusable.