Imageshack here I come.
Wavertree Gardens are relatively unspoilt Brian apart from the main arch from the High Street being gated and the new name Abbeygate Apartments being above it. During the renovation, double glazed old style window frame units were put in etc.
The Bullring looks good with each landing's doors painted a different colour and it's part grassed central area but bear in mind it's student based now so not as wrecked.
I'll see what i've got to post up.
Where I live it's still like that.Originally Posted by Brian-P
There is always someone to talk to, either your immediate neighbours, or at the local shops or at the bus stop as you say. Our neighbours go into each others houses for a cuppa and a chat, and when the weather is better talk on the doorsteps.
Sometimes it's like being in a golldfish bowl! -you can't move and someone sees you !!
and everyone knows everyone else's comings and goings. .. not complaining really - - we have a great community, there is always someone to turn to if needs be, and still a lot of the original old families hanging in there -- even though many strangers are moving into the area. You never have to be lonely or bored here, there's always a neighbour to chat to.
Take a look here Brian.
http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/sho...urts+tenements
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---------- Post added at 12:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:13 PM ----------
Where I live it's still like that.
Sometimes it's like being in a golldfish bowl -you can't move and someone sees you !!
Yes lindy, there is no doubt that there are still clusters of neighbourhoods like that. I know for instance that those ex Gerard Gardens community that managed to get houses in their old neighbourhood and so know each other from old are still like that - the same wit the Vauxhall Gardens, Holy Cross, 4 squares community. We also hear so much about incidents in other neighbourhoods where when reporters are interviewing local residents, they say 'nobody really knew him' or 'he kept himself to himself likes lots of people around here' or 'He'd nod when we passed each other but that was about it'
I've driven into lots of closes on my rounds, especially in winter, where it's like a ghost town and it's a case of coming home from work, straight in the front door and closed, not seeing people from one day to the next, especially in the dark nights and depths of winter. The demise of the high street shops for a jangle and a catch up is not good for this either. That's one thing you could not say about the floodlit tennie squares that were a hive of activity all year round.
Tommy's Mum moved from Addison St, little two up and down terraced off Byrom St. up to new houses off Mile End, most of her neighbours went out of Town, and when we go to visit, once we come out the tunnel all the old neighbourhood's are taken up with student accommodation right up to Burlington Street.
Yes, a transient situation.
If you don't mind me asking, where's that (roughly)?Where I live it's still like that.
Anfield. We still have a good community, many established families which have spanned the generations still here. But sadly, for various reasons, the district has been left to deteriorate and the community has been somewhat eroded by the moving in of 'problem families' and other problematic people who have been evicted from somewhere else.
I think once a solid community has been chipped away at over a long period, it will eventually disappear never to be replaced.
Maybe it's the story. Chris Wilson (see above) was talking about the grouping of all the problem cases
in one basket where in the past they might have been spread about a bit and there was less of an 'entitlement culture' (his words).
BTW what do you reckon to the few new houses that have been built?
georgianeverton_1203051small by Peter McGurk, on Flickr
Is this a better way of avoiding the mistakes of the past???
everton valley
Perhaps if there was a penalty rate imposed on buildings left to rot in the hope of getting a demolition permit things might look a little different. There should be time limit on leaving buildings derilict with the council stepping in to keep the buildings viable with a charge on the owners equity in the building.
On the otherhand the experiments that have failed was it the housing or the housed that were the problem. I don't reall any Cornish fishing villages with "criminal rat runs" going through them a few smugglers coves, yes, but most are very desirable places to live.
Same with tower blocks how come they turned into such a heap of crud in such a short time- in terms of property life span, when in other countries around the world they are accepted as inner city housing. If those tower blocks were privatised dwellings would they still be habitable or even proved to be a good investment?
You don’t have to go abroad to find successful high-rise blocks of flats - there’s one or two in Sefton Park. But they don’t suit everybody and that’s been a problem - the one size fits all idea.
And you don’t need a permit to demolition an ordinary house in North Liverpool (or anywhere else) - you need tenants and owners who can afford to keep houses up.
I’ve lost the link and can’t remember the name... but this ‘fishing village’ was only there for five minutes before being pulled down by council (no doubt on threat of the tenants burning it down) (Trafalgar? Tredegar? Talacre?).
[Edit: Radcliffe Estate - Ged's got it on his site http://inacityliving.piczo.com/?g=41897456&cr=7 - it lasted about 20 years]
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There’s an estate in Aintree of more or less the same design as some others. Hedges are clipped. Windows painted. Looked After.
The others look like Beirut.
All of the estates (and tennies and flats) started out as aspirational (a "letter from God to get in") and ended up as poor ghettoes.
Local Authority Housing Estates are the cheapest we can do. As a whole we more or less insist it's that way. We want value for 'our' money.
Yet, Local Authorities are obliged to house everyone (who can’t help themselves). Those who can, look after themselves and move on and up (or emigrate). Those who can’t, end up in a cheap rate Sink Estate at the back of nowhere.
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Yes, people are the problem and money is the problem. But what do we do? Re-open the workhouses for the “ne’er-do-wells”?
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Very cynical Mr McGurk.
It is true that sometimes it's 'some' of the people. It is also true that sometimes, Council policy lets the tenants down.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liverpo...ouncil_v_Irwin
However, the Cornish fishing village which was the Radcliffe Estate was badly thought out and planned. Rats runs, no emergency vehicle access, your car parked in a communal area hundreds of yards away etc. The Easby and Grizedale estates were not dissimilar but more livable but even these have only lasted 40 years which is 10 years or so less than the walk up tenements, not all of which were ghettos.
I think going back to street plans with garden houses has been a success in a lot of areas.
Sometimes I get cynicism and irony mixed up.
I didn't mean to say that people are a problem. I meant to say that not taking (all different types of) people into account is a problem.
Some people cannot look after themselves. It's not their fault. And they don't deserve to be lumped together in a wholly inappropriate architectural/planning experiment to satisfy council's obligations under the Housing Acts.
The Radcliffe Estate was clearly unfit for purpose for the people who were to use it. It might have made a great student Halls of Residence (who have fewer cars and a more communal and transient lifestyle) or maybe those who did use it actually didn't have so many cars anyway. Then maybe nothing wrong with the architecture - just used in the wrong way.
Incidentally, and again it wouldn't suit everyone but if we spent as much time and money and management effort on affordable housing as we do on student accommodation and particularly student campus accommodation, I think certain sections of society would be a lot better off.
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Nevertheless... Lord Denning found in favour of the council; arguing that council had only an obligation to exercise reasonable care - which they did. In fact Council did everything it could in the circumstances in the teeth of some pretty outrageous louts in the area (it says). In fact, Denning says:
"[Council] have been beaten by the vandals and hooligans. [Council] were not in breach of their duty to use reasonable care."
This was also backed up in the House of Lords even though it also went on to say:
"Some people might think that it would have been, on balance, wrong for the council to adopt such an attitude, but no one could possibly describe such an attitude as irrational or perverse."
[because of the actions of vandals, the huge liability that council would have accepted for us all and the very tight financial constraints within which council had to work]
So much for the law. But it does support the idea that council (ie., we) shouldn't have to keep paying to fix things for as long as people are prepared to kick seven bells out of them
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I have the same problem.and at times people read things wrong.
I know what you mean, but I do think people should help themselves a little more. It doesn't take money to take a little pride in your living area - a brush and shovel and bit of water to clean your living environment. You can be the poorest person but still clean your immediate surroundings and keep it half decent. You can even do small repairs instead of waiting for everything to be done for you. I've seen perfectly able bodied people complaining and waiting for something simple like a faulty latch on a garden gate, or a hole in the fence or whatever, to be fixed. Why are some people so hapless and helpless ?Even if you don't have money it doesn't take much to use a screwdriver or put a lick of paint around.
It boils down to having no pride or sense of making a home.
Of course, the council or landlords should do the major stuff - but some people expect every little thing done for them.
I know what you are saying Ged about places being allowed to fall into disrepair - I'm sure that is true and has happened - but it does make you wonder why some estates and tower blocks have worked and yet others haven't.
I've seen estates and tower blocks which are well kept, clean and the outside areas smart and tidy - yet others are like hell holes.. so must we assume it's the type of people living in them ??
Even if you live in a place in bad repair, the poorest person can have standards and at least be clean and tidy.
Are there any tower blocks left in Liverpool that are not privately owned?
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