Gardens, Tenements and Courts

[Ged]

Yeah but that's people for you, not so much the flats - you can't blame bricks and mortar for that. There's still kids nowadays in this well to do era who will ask to mind your car on matchdays, will ask trick or treat - give the wrong answer to either and kapput. They'll rob from your van at traffic lights now - that didn't happen back then - though you could possible blame the black borstal breakout plimsols with shiny front as not being good getaway gear.

I knew lads who lived in 'posh' houses on Queens Drive and Page Moss who'd rob you as much as look at you back then so it wasn't just the gardens.

There was pride in those places in the 60s and 70s. The stairwell and landings would be whitewashed along the edge for forthcoming weddings or priest visits or May Queen processions. There'd be bunting hanging out for special occassions and always a good spread on first Holy Communion day.

Like I said earlier, it was the councils who always had one eye on one road scheme or another that let these become run down. As for the high rise, I agree that private Companies have done some good with the existing ones off Netherfield Road and the difference between the old and renovated one (Bispham and Adlington House) on Lace Street shows what can be done. Still though, you don't I don't hear people moaning too much about the running costs of these and i'm from around there and know lots of the families.

[Waterways]

Yeah but that's people for you, not so much the flats - you can't blame bricks and mortar for that.

You can. They created an impersonal inhuman environment.

There's still kids nowadays in this well to do era who will ask to mind your car on matchdays, will ask trick or treat - give the wrong answer to either and kapput. They'll rob from your van at traffic lights now - that didn't happen back then

Because they never thought of it.

I knew lads who lived in 'posh' houses on Queens Drive and Page Moss who'd rob you as much as look at you back then so it wasn't just the gardens.

Moreso in the gardens. Once one deteriortated, they created that attitude.

There was pride in those places in the 60s and 70s. The stairwell and landings would be whitewashed along the edge for forthcoming weddings or priest visits or May Queen processions. There'd be bunting hanging out for special occassions and always a good spread on first Holy Communion day.

Once the 70s came that all went down - when the first generation of resident went. Few hung washing off the balconies it was that bad in some.

With flats, if a few bad families were there they could drag the whole block, or gardens, down quickly. The decent people move and quickly too, and the whole place spirals downwards quite quickly until you end up with knobheads. The council then use them to hosue the problem families as they are all in one place only annoying each other. A sink estate.

You are focusing on one time of these gardens, the 1940s and 50s - the good times.

[Ged]

No, i'm talking about the 60s and the 70s. I don't know if you were beaten up in one of these squares or something but you sure have a hang up about them that countless people who I knew then and who I know now who were sorry to see them go haven't got.

By the way - around 150 houses were only ever built in the immediate area to take anything between 200 - 400 families, certainly true of Gerard Gardens - one of the biggest developments, the rest were cast aside to far and wide flung places, the elderly of these people who missed their neighbours, never the same again. They were art deco monuments - Castle like some of them and well revered.

Took Sloyan Doyle 2 years to knock Gerard Gardens down

[Waterways]

No, i'm talking about the 60s and the 70s. I don't know if you were beaten up in one of these squares or something but you sure have a hang up about them that countless people who I knew then and who I know now who were sorry to see them go haven't got.

They were all around me: Caryl, Warwick, Brunswick, King and Sussex Gardens. Then Dingle and South Hill Houses and Dingle House on Dingle Lane.

I worked in them. They all blended into one big "garden".

They served their use to get sanitary conditions for people in courts. Then the time came to get rid as the sell-by date approached.

You are about the only one I know who had a good word for them.

[Ged]

How about the original poster, the 70 people who attended the reunion dinner at the Via Veneto recently (turned twice as many away), Paul Sudbury, creator of Gardens of Stone, the people who have purchased 1,500, 970 and 112 of my volumes I,II & III of In a city living (to date), the people who were queing up to be interviewed for the end of the above film, the 100+ ex residents who attended the FACT screenings, the posters on the Scottie Press site, Margaret Donnelly author of My Parish about Fontenoy Gdns and countless who have stopped me and talked to me about them.

I'm not saying they were the be all and end all but to call them impersonal and creators of hoodlums is a slur on all those very mostly good people who lived in them. I know from experience that people were on the waiting list for years for these as we tried and eventually succeeded to move from a 2 to a 3 bedroomed flat.

Anyway, there are those for and those against and we'll not change each others minds. Have a nice weekend.

[Ged]

Sorry, should say 1000+ ex residents. (If they'd hated them, there'd be no nostalgia. )

[The Gardens]

An interesting discussion between Waterways and Ged! However, I must say there was a strong sense of community within the tenement blocks. Everybody knew everybody, and that was a powerful commodity when you were a kid. The neighbours knew your mother, and as a result there was no back chat and a lot of respect (unlike the anonomous hoodie sketch that we have today). From someone who lived within the tenements I can see how 'outsiders' could feel threatend as they entered the 'colluseum' of the tenements. I lived in the one in Christian Street, so there could be a perception of Christians to the lions!

They were full of characters, and proud people who had limited income. Are there any characters in the street where you live? Unfortunately, pride has now been swapped for competition.

My mam moved from the tenements to a brand new lovely semi detatched with a front and back garden, she hated it. She longed for the days of standing on the landing watching the kids play in the square (cheap entertainment). There was always someone walking past your house who would stop and have a chat. Surprising, she felt more isolated in the semi than she ever did living in the flats.

[The Gardens]

City Centre tenement blocks (Gerard Gardens etc) were built on the site of Gerard Street, which was an area heavily populated by Italian immigrants at the end of the 19th Century.

There was a recent renuion meeting which brought together a lot of the old Italian community from Liverpool's Little Italy. The night included music from Una Voce operatic society and the Wirral Mandoliers. There was also screenings of Shadow Boxer, the story of local boxer Dom Volante made by Andy Smith. My film Gardens of Stone who focuses upon City Centre living in the 20th Century was also shown.

I created a short introduction to the night which can be viewed by clicking on the YouTube link. It feature the voices of Nunzia Bertali (Italian Consulate), Ray Baccino (resident of Gerard Crescent) and Ronnie Volnate (nephew of boxer Dom).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU2Ysd5CLCI

Further details on the Liitle Italy area of Liverpool can be viewed by visiting the Scottie Press website

http://www.scottiepress.org/projects/litaly.htm

[MissInformed]

An interesting discussion between Waterways and Ged! However, I must say there was a strong sense of community within the tenement blocks. Everybody knew everybody, and that was a powerful commodity when you were a kid. The neighbours knew your mother, and as a result there was no back chat and a lot of respect (unlike the anonomous hoodie sketch that we have today). From someone who lived within the tenements I can see how 'outsiders' could feel threatend as they entered the 'colluseum' of the tenements. I lived in the one in Christian Street, so there could be a perception of Christians to the lions!

They were full of characters, and proud people who had limited income. Are there any characters in the street where you live? Unfortunately, pride has now been swapped for competition.

My mam moved from the tenements to a brand new lovely semi detatched with a front and back garden, she hated it. She longed for the days of standing on the landing watching the kids play in the square (cheap entertainment). There was always someone walking past your house who would stop and have a chat. Surprising, she felt more isolated in the semi than she ever did living in the flats.

my mum lived in king gardens whilst she was growing up, and remembers it fondly now.
She is 47, and looks back on that time with great warmth.

[Sloyne]

There was a recent renuion meeting which brought together a lot of the old Italian community from Liverpool's Little Italy.

I was on a cruise in October of this year aboard the Holland America ship Statendam between Vancouver and Auckland and had the good fortune of meeting the great granddaughter of the Fusco's ice founder. Her name is Maria Fusco and she now lives in Lisbon, Portugal. I still correspond with her.

There are "Italians" in my own family; Santangeli, Acarri and Famiglio. My aunt Vera (Sant) lived at 2 Breck Place and was probably my favourite aunt.

[The Gardens]

During the research for my film Gardens of Stone, I came across a documentary entitled Homes For Workers. It was made the the Gas Board in 1938 and is introduced by Lanceloy Keay, Liverpool Chief Architect. It details many of Keay's developments, including the jewel in his crown 'Gerard Gardens'. It details the 'luxuries' introduced into 1930's residents; hot & cold running water, gas & electric power, indoor toilets and bathrooms (some homeowners in the city still had outside toilets in the 1960's!).

I have uploaded excerpts from the film to Youtube, click the link to view;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEg8QK23NTk

The tenements were given bad press at the end of their lives, but one could only wonder at the joy the first residents to the new blocks must have felt. My mam and dad moved into the flat in 1960, leaving a condemed house in Queen Anne Place and loved it. The flats have been described as ugly, but I would consider Gerard Gardens, with its art deco styling, to be a work of beauty (its in the eye of the beholder!). The Karl Marx Hof in Vienna, on which it was based, is still standing, and stands as a testimony as to how other countries have more respect for their heritage they we do.

[Kev]

^^Brilliant^^

[MissInformed]

During the research for my film Gardens of Stone, I came across a documentary entitled Homes For Workers. It was made the the Gas Board in 1938 and is introduced by Lanceloy Keay, Liverpool Chief Architect. It details many of Keay's developments, including the jewel in his crown 'Gerard Gardens'. It details the 'luxuries' introduced into 1930's residents; hot & cold running water, gas & electric power, indoor toilets and bathrooms (some homeowners in the city still had outside toilets in the 1960's!).

I have uploaded excerpts from the film to Youtube, click the link to view;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEg8QK23NTk

The tenements were given bad press at the end of their lives, but one could only wonder at the joy the first residents to the new blocks must have felt. My mam and dad moved into the flat in 1960, leaving a condemed house in Queen Anne Place and loved it. The flats have been described as ugly, but I would consider Gerard Gardens, with its art deco styling, to be a work of beauty (its in the eye of the beholder!). The Karl Marx Hof in Vienna, on which it was based, is still standing, and stands as a testimony as to how other countries have more respect for their heritage they we do.

hiya
Just watched the YouTube clip...absolutely brilliant! Forwarded it to my mum, who grew up in King Gardens.

Tried to view the trailer for your film on your homepage, but it seems to have expired..? Would love to see it

[PhilipG]

Upper Stanhope Street/Chesterfield Street.
Built 1938 with 67 flats.
Demolished in 1994.

1986 (2 photos stuck together).

[The Gardens]

Thanks for the comments, if you wish to see a trailer for Gardens of Stone click the link below;

http://www.scottiepress.org/gallery/stjoes.htm

scroll down to View Gardens of Stone film, this is an old trailer, the film was updated of the screening at FACT. The full film, which runs for 1hr 18 mins, is due to be screened at Lee Jones League of Welldoers in the New Year. I will post the details when confirmed.