Mass Grave in Old Swan

[PhilipG]

As far as I know, the gardens were laid over the graveyard.
Which is probably the reason why it's always so well looked after.

One of the theories put about was that the graveyard was cleared for the building of St George's Hall, but that's wrong on a number of counts.
St George's Hall was built on the site of buildings, including the Infirmary.
(The graveyard was behind the site, where the gardens are today).
St George's Hall was completed before the dates on some of the graves.

The real reason for the mass grave will probably always be a mystery, but my personal feeling is they were plague victims who were buried in what would have been the countryside.
There again the cholera epidemic was a good ten years before the dates on some of the graves.

[Ged]

The situation regarding bodies within I can give first hand information on. As a kid and living nearby, we used to play football in the none flower parts, namely near to the path which runs from William Brown st right through to St. John's Lane. They were digging up (or is it down) within the gardens nearby and we got down there and there were bones and skulls. We later found out that these were possibly Napoleonic prisoners of war, so they're still there or at least some of them are.

[TonyS]

Hi,

Does anyone know where these graves were found.
The following OS map was published in 1906.
I suspect that the mass graves were paupers burials at St. Oswald's RC Church.




See you,

Tony

[Waterways]

Hi,

Does anyone know where these graves were found.
The following OS map was published in 1906.
I suspect that the mass graves were paupers burials at St. Oswald's RC Church.



See you,

Tony

From what I was aware. just above Maddocks St. Some houses are built on the ground already. More houses were built, right on top of the site. The houses to the bottom of Maddocks St were demolished to build Hurst Gardens.

[TonyS]

From what I was aware. just above Maddocks St. Some houses are built on the ground already. More houses were built, right on top of the site. The houses to the bottom of Maddocks St were demolished to build Hurst Gardens.

The new school is between the church and Percival Street, and the graves were discovered whilst digging the foundations for the school.

Are you Tom Slemen's fact-checker ?

[Waterways]

The new school is between the church and Percival Street, and the graves were discovered whilst digging the foundations for the school.

Are you Tom Slemen's fact-checker ?

I got the roads mixed up. I knew of it at the time they were discovered. It was kept secret. I worked for British Gas at the time. You got to know these things as work would be interrupted.

[Roscoe]

If anyone wanted to know about the so called mass graves in Old Swan and had consulted early OS maps of the area they would have noted the cemetary was marked. It is a pity Mr Slemen rarely quotes dates or sources in his publications or articles nor seems to offer any traceable quotations. I never bother wasting my time reading either his writings or books that seem to be either unheard of urban myths or the figments of his own wild imagination.

[blackvelvet]

Has anyone else written about the grave? I'm struggling to find any other sources on the topic.

If you can remember the actual discovery of the grave, know any of the people that did, or have any other theories regarding this please email me blackvelvet9@yahoo.co.uk, I'd love as much information as possible!

[Ged]

Have you looked over all 100+ posts on the subject here first?

[blackvelvet]

Yes - in great detail. Other than Tom Slemen (whose work is fairly dubious considering his superstition), and Whale's 'Lost Villages of Liverpool' there are no factual written accounts of the discovery of the grave. I'm interested in the views of other historians and I'm having difficulty finding it mentioned anywhere else. I'm studying this topic for a possible history dissertation which is why I could do with strong factual sources.

I'd particularly like people who remember the discovery of the grave to contact me. Despite what has been mentioned throughout the thread, through my own research it has come to light that there is speculation over the year in which the graves were discovered. I know it is quoted as being 1973, but locals have insisted that it was much later - I refer to 'Stan' who claims that he remembers the fences going up - that he was born in 1973, yet St Oswalds Primary School (the site in which the grave was discovered) was first contemplated in 1979.

[Bevy]

It was about 77/78, I remember it clearly as we used to play football in the street.

It was a basic building site but when they discovered the bodies they erected a fence covered with huge blue plastic sheets

This was up for a few months until the bodies were removed,then work carried on and the school was built.

[Ged]

What of this guy from message 15.....

''One letter that took issue with criminologist Keith Andrews's claims of a systematic massacre of Irish immigrants at the site in around 1848 was written by Liverpool's former principal environmental health officer, Ken Williams, who was in charge of the 1973 exhumation.''


I don't think Keith Andrews claims are of any importance, he has a self given title of criminologist and is Tom Slemen's sidekick but can echo newspaper cuttings from 1973 (or is it 78/79 as others have said) or any writings by Ken Williams be unearthed from the LRO?

[Bevy]

My grandfathers shop was demolished in 1973 and yes they did find a few graves but the mass grave was not found until the foundation work for the school began in 1977/78..see my post and scan #81

I may be able to get the exact dates as my aunt lives opposite the site.

Next time I see here I shall get what info I can.

But trust me the mass grave was found around 77/78.

[blackvelvet]

Thanks Bevy!

I've looked at the scan and it's excellent. I'll be sure to trawl through the records office and have a look through the newspapers from both eras and see what I can find...I'll look at old OS maps too.

With regards to Keith Andrews - I can't find any of his published works or indeed anything about him at all that doesn't relate to Tom Slemen. I'm not sure that anything he says can be take literally!

Ken Williams's version of events do seem slightly sketchy...as far fetched as it sounds (and I'd love it to be true) - he may be covering up a sinister government conspiracy! I'd love to get an interview with him.

[Spike]

Not sure if it means anything but one old bloke once told us that Canadian Soldiers had been buried on that site? He is not around anymore so I cant ask him. I wish I had asked him about it back then.