Are the Irish getting remembered?

[Gnomie]

I think the links to the Liverpool Irish Festival, Institute of Irish Studies, James Larkin Republican Flute Band, St Michael's Irish Centre, etc. demonstrate that the Irish are acknowledged in Liverpool. However, for Waterways, there is a website for the Welsh in Liverpool here.

Yep Howie

But most of this has been around before capital of culture.

I would like to see something happen in 2008

[Howie]

Yep Howie

But most of this has been around before capital of culture.

I would like to see something happen in 2008

Most of the Capital of Culture events were around before the Capital of Culture!!!

PS I'm sure I did see some Irish dancing on the 08 events programme.

[Waterways]

I think the links to the Liverpool Irish Festival, Institute of Irish Studies, James Larkin Republican Flute Band, St Michael's Irish Centre, etc. demonstrate that the Irish are acknowledged in Liverpool. However, for Waterways, there is a website for the Welsh in Liverpool here.

How about the Latvians as well! Can't leave them out! What a bunch of biggots!! leaving them out!!!

The Larkin band is about a Liverpudlian who was union man, in England, Ireland and the USA.

[Howie]

How about the Latvians as well! Can't leave them out! What a bunch of biggots!! leaving them out!!!

The Larkin band is about a Liverpudlian who was union man, in England, Ireland and the USA.

There was a Friendship Agreement made between Liverpool and Riga in 2002.

[Howie]

There was a Friendship Agreement made between Liverpool and Riga in 2002.

Though didn't a Latvian MP brand Liverpool tourists as 'savages' in 2006?

[Max]

Theres always going to be something to complain about.

Liverpool having a huge dockland history will have many Influences not remembered.

[Waterways]

We are Irish.

Who are these we? Don't include me and 99% of Liverpudlians either. We are Irish? The first time I heard Diddly-Dee music live was in London.

Me 75% right through my history. so why cant me and thousands like me have a memorial to our ancestors that had to work the lowest jobs. had to live in the poorest areas, had to fight to survive, but survive they did. this alone should be celebrated here.

The Welsh did the same as did the English, why single out the Irish who are far from the largest group in the city. Well because you are Irish you want all this.

We should do more for memorial/part of a museum for the famine and the city's reluctant role in it.

Waterways you wrote " If you want Irish history go to Dublin - they will tell you. The famine and the city's role in it, yes of course - but no Irish parades. that is for the Irish to do. And as we don't have many I don't see it happening.If the city has a day for the Irish we should have one for the Welsh too. "

First how do we not have many Irish, they are everywhere, and over 50% of english living here descend from Irish.

You made that up.

I also think you will find that a lot more Irish settled here than Welsh. the Welsh are a big part, but serious not on the scale of the Irish.

That is total tripe!!!! Far more Welsh - they built the city!!!! The city is nearly on the border and the accent is heavily Welsh influenced. By the way, there have been two Welsh Eisteddfod's held in Liverpool, one a few years ago was cancelled. That is how heavy the Welsh influence is.

If you have a thing about being Irish, Ryan Air have planes to Ireland. We are English with a heavy influence from Wales, Ireland, Scandinavia, Scotland, etc, that formed a city culture in Liverpool - and I want to keep it that way. Liverpudlian first and foremost!!!!!

My name is Burns - Scottish. I was invited to a Burns Night at a military club in St. James' in London. Dinner jacket or Scottish regalia with kilt was the attire otherwise no admittance. I was minor celeb as I was of the Clan Burns. They asked why I was not in a kilt being a Burns. I told them I don't go into it as I am a Liverpudlian first and foremost and really don't feel Scottish at all. If I did I would live there.

[Gnomie]

Waterways I shall refer to you from now on as " The Irish Racist " for that is what you are.

Diddly-dee music is an insult, and has nothing to do with the Irish settlement here.

" Don't include me and 99% of Liverpudlians either you say " get a history book and start reading you fool, to state that you must be getting low on ideas to insult the Irish.

Your Welsh builders never outnumbered the Irish- again read your history.

" If you have a thing about being Irish, Ryan Air have planes to Ireland " ha ha ha ha-very good im so scared i think i must fly away from such a ruffian as you. A typical attitude to anyone who mentions Ireland. So tell me do you live in Wales? you seem to love the Welsh so much?

What you should do Waterways ( whoops sorry i meant Irish Racist ) is read some history, then come back on here and tell it as it is, not as you foolish head believes it to be. you never could, and i for one will ignore your racist remarks from now on.

so feel free to have the last say, then do me a favour and never speak to me again. I dont like racist and a racist you are.

[Gnomie]

Unless I have missed something

I would like to know why the city is not marking any event to the Irish coming into this city( many by force ). A huge percentage of this city have Irish blood in them, The Irish have certainly left their mark here. I know we have the Wigwam named Paddy, but surely something should be done to mark what happened during and after the Famine.

Many passed through Liverpools port, and many made Liverpool their home.
They lived in some of the worst poverty ever witnessed in this city, yet they survived, and helped shape it into what it is now.

I just feel a bit miffed when its capital of culture and nothing seems to be getting done ( I hope im proved wrong, but please not an official Irish dance at the town hall please ) Yes I have a big Irish connection in my family still today, but im sure others must wonder why nothing is marked.?

Dublin has the famine statues leaving the port. Liverpool could have them here arriving in their new world?

This is how this thread opened. Just a question, no insults to anyone. by some of the replies ( most from the Irish Racist ) im not surprised that nothing will ever be done. although im certain that most Liverpool people are not of that attitude.

[Gnomie]

For the racist above

Refuge in Britain

The poorest of the poor never made it to North America. They fled Irish estates out of fear of imprisonment then begged all the way to Dublin or other seaports on the East Coast of Ireland. Once there, they boarded steamers and crossed the Irish Sea to Liverpool, Glasgow, and South Wales. It was a short trip, just two or three hours and cost only a few shillings. Pauper families sometimes traveled for free as human ballast on empty coal ships. Others were given fare money by landlords hoping to get rid of them cheaply. Relief funds intended for the purchase of food were sometimes diverted to pay for the fares.

For many Irishmen, crossing the sea to England was a familiar journey since they regularly worked in the harvest fields of England as seasonal laborers. But for their wives and children, it was a jarring experience. Crewmen scorned and herded them like animals onto crammed decks until the boat was dangerously overloaded. In one case, a crowded steamer heading for Liverpool arrived with 72 dead aboard. The captain had ordered the hatches battened down during a storm at sea and they had all suffocated.

Despite the dangers, the Irish knew that once they landed on Britain's shores they would not starve to death. Unlike Ireland, food handouts were freely available throughout the country. The quality of the food was also superior to the meager rations handed out in Ireland's soup kitchens and workhouses.

The Irish first headed for Liverpool, a city with a pre-famine population of about 250,000, many of whom were unskilled laborers. During the first wave of famine emigration, from January to June of 1847, an estimated 300,000 destitute Irish arrived in Liverpool, overwhelming the city. The financial burden of feeding the Irish every day soon brought the city to the brink of ruin. Sections of the city featuring cheap lodging houses became jammed. Overflow crowds moved into musty cellars, condemned and abandoned buildings, or anywhere they could just lie down. Amid these densely packed, unsanitary conditions, typhus once again reared its ugly head and an epidemic followed, accompanied by an outbreak of dysentery.

The cheap lodging houses were also used by scores of Irish waiting to embark on ships heading for North America. Three out of four Irish sailing for North America departed from the seaport at Liverpool. Normally they had to sleep over for a night or two until their ship was ready to sail. Many of these emigrants contracted typhus in the rundown, lice-infested lodging houses, then boarded ships, only to spend weeks suffering from burning fever out at sea.

On June 21, 1847, the British government, intending to aid besieged Liverpool, passed a tough new law allowing local authorities to deport homeless Irish back to Ireland. Within days, the first boatloads of paupers were being returned to Dublin and Cork, then abandoned on the docks. Orders for removal were issued by the hundreds. About 15,000 Irish were dragged out of filthy cellars and lodging houses and sent home even if they were ill with fever.

By the fall of 1847, the numbers of Irish entering Liverpool had slowed considerably and the housing crisis abated. Glasgow, the second major port of entry, also resorted to deporting the Irish due to similar overcrowding and fever outbreaks. The Irish then headed into the Lowlands and Edinburgh where yet another fever outbreak occurred. Everyone feared fever and thus shunned the Irish no matter how much they pleaded for help. Working men also viewed them as rivals for unskilled jobs.

To avoid deportation, the Irish moved further into the interior of England, Scotland and Wales. But wherever they went they were unwelcome. For the unfortunate Irish deported back home, the worst was yet to come.

Source

http://www.historyplace.com/worldhis...ine/coffin.htm

[molly]

That is a fact. The Orange Order was and is only in working class areas in Liverpool. You may find working class people offensive.

It is a known fact that Senior members of The Orange Order all around the world not only in Liverpool do not come from just Working Class Areas.

The Orange Order is influenced by the Free Mason Organisation and members of the Royal Family are high ranking members of the Free Masons.

How working class do you want to get??????????

I most certainly do not find working class people offensive and I am very proud to be working class and indeed very proud to be Irish , BUT, I do find you very anti Irish and your postings offensive.

Please re read your history before you post. End or argument from here.

[kevin]

This is all getting just too silly. Waterworks is an opionated bigot, as can be seen on other threads than this one. But by responding to his posts you're just feeding him opportunities to carry on his mischief.

Why not just ignore his posts, no matter how inflamatory? Never respond to anything he posts and eventually he'll disappear up his own backside.

Responding and arguing your case is pointless when the man chooses to listen to no opinions but his own. Ignore him and deny him his soapbox.
Hard to do but it will pay off in the end!

[lindylou]

The Welsh do not make enough fuss about their culture. People do not give the Welsh much recognition. Many people, particularly the younger generation in this city, are not even aware of the Welsh connection in Liverpool. They only ever hear about the Irish connection.
The Welsh are very important to this city.




... any way ... why can't we just be proud of being SCOUSE ???

I am a liverpool girl through and through. Lets just bang the drum for our own Scouseness for a change.


(by the way, I don't have Welsh roots, but I am just speaking up for them)

[shoney]

That is Glasgow not Liverpool.

ran it by a few of my glasgow friends , they've never heard of it, they are catholics and protestants combined it IS a big saying here amongst ex-merchant seaman when asked where do they come from they reply "the capital of ireland... liverpool"

[lindylou]

I am aware of the orange orders around the world and they have all different classes of people in them. I have read up about them - they are in all countries around the globe.
It is fair to say though, that in L'pool - during my life time at least - the Orange Lodges I have seen are mainly made up of working class people. You hardly see upper class proffessionals and affluents marching along to Southport do you !! That's speaking for Liverppol at least - I can't speak for other places - but I don't see upper class types flocking down to London rd on the 12th