I found this on the bbc website.
A pic of a blue stone/plaque dated 1820. Apparently in Martindales car park in St Anne St.
Any ideas what it is??
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I found this on the bbc website.
A pic of a blue stone/plaque dated 1820. Apparently in Martindales car park in St Anne St.
Any ideas what it is??
I've checked the 1908 OS map, and Rose Place was the "Divn. of Parly. Boro. & Ward Bdy." (sic).
Division (?) of Parliamentary Borough and Ward Boundary.
I assume this is the Grade II listed boundary stone? I can just make out a 'W' and a 'G' either side of the dividing line.
I know there are a few different little threads going on about boundary stones, but I think we should collect them all in one!
Post your pics of boundary stones here!
And any info/facts about them....most welcome..
Thanks for starting this thread, MissInformed. As you can see, I have copied Marky's post of the boundary stone on Rose Lane by Mossley Hill Church to here. Marky said, "It's just a bit down the hill from the church (and on the same side). I just hope the letters don't stand for Water and Gas. I don't know its' age, but guess it's old." And I expressed the view that the "W" probably stands for "Wavertree" and the "G" for "Garston."
I will also put the St. Anne's boundary marker here as well. -- The pic of which you helpfully posted earlier.
Chris
Hi MissInformed
Toxteth.net has a discussion of the boundaries of Toxteth Park including pictures of two boundary stones, for Wavertree and Toxteth Park, respectively, shown with a "W" and a "TP" -- which might confirm what I said above that the Rose Lane marker shows the boundary between Wavertree ("W") and Garston ("W"). Also shown on Toxteth.net are a recent railway marker close to those two stones, as well as another possible Toxteth boundary marker.
On Mike Royden's history site in his discussion of the Oglet saltworks in Dungeon Lane, he mentions that "A ditch running alongside Dungeon Lane, which leads down to the shore from Hale Road, once formed part of the ancient boundary line between the townships of Speke and Hale" and that "A boundary stone bearing the Speke Hall Watt family's initials was situated on this line part way along the incline."
In his discussion of Roby, Mike says, "The oldest standing structure is most likely what appear to be the remnants of either a village cross - or perhaps a boundary stone." A picture of the stone appears on his site.
Chris
According to City Council the following Boundary Stones exist.
Church Road: Grade II Stone. Divided into 2 parts. Left part "Much Woolton" right part "Little Woolton"
Mill Lane Wavertree: Salisbury Stone Boundary Stone. Made of Sandstone. Inscribed with a crown and the letter S. 1861.
Rose Lane: Township boundary stone, set against stone wall to north of Church of St. Matthew and St. James. Grade II. Made of Sandstone. Vertical line in centre. "W" (for Wavertree) on the left and "G" (for Garston) on the right.
Priory Rd Anfield and Townsend Lane: Boundary Post 1884. Made of Sandstone.Township of Walton On The Hill and Township of West Derby.
Walton Lane& Tetlow Street: Boundary Post 1865. Grade II. Cast metal.
Mike
Great, thank you, Mike. I had forgotten that there was a "Much Woolton" and a "Little Woolton" although I have to admit I would not know which is which -- does anyone know? Also about the Salisbury stone in Mill Lane, Wavertree, I believe Lord Salisbury owned land in the Wavertree area so I should say that accounts for that designation.
Ah, I now see that the Victoria County History has a site on Much Woolton and Little Woolton, the latter of which confirms the local link to the Marquis of Salisbury.
Chris
I'm sure I've posted these pictures somewhere on the forum before.
Anyway, this is the boundary marker on Priory rd. Don't know what happened to the top of it (there used to be a pointy sort of cap ) - it suddenly disappeared after all these years. Might have been knocked off by vandals or something.
Not very clear but one side says Township of Walton on the Hill.
The other side, Township of West derby.
Thanks, Lindy!Quote:
Originally Posted by lindylou
Chris
This list is interesting, but it's not complete.Quote:
Originally Posted by GingerTheCat
I don't know much about Boundary Stones, but funnily enough, the 2 that I do know are not here.
There's one in Aigburth Vale, near Aigburth Road, and one in Smithdown Road, by the Cemetery wall.
Hi PhilipQuote:
Originally Posted by PhilipG
Thanks, Philip. Here's the one on Smithdown Road as pictured on Toxteth.net
http://www.toxteth.net/places/liverp...y%20marker.htm
I don't know the one in Aigburth Vale. I know there is a mile marker there which is described in the following PDF file from the Liverpool Corporation on local monuments and markers as a circa 1900 cast iron marker which states "Toxteth Park 3 1/2 miles to Liverpool Exchange"
http://www.liverpool.gov.uk/Images/tcm21-37069.pdf
Chris
For Aigburth they show a Cast Iron Mile Post, Grade II, Circa 1900 saying Toxteth Park 3½ miles to Liverpool Exchange
and nothing for Smithdown Road.
Mike
great info guys!
That's gone missingQuote:
Originally Posted by GingerTheCat
It was in the corner by Aigburth Road (near the underpass).
The Boundary Stone is just the other side of the "Old Bank" building.
Wavertree has one - of sorts:
Walk along Mill Lane - so called because it was the road leading from Old Swan to the ancient Wavertree Mill off Woolton Road - past the children's playground. A few yards inside the railed enclosure can be seen a sandstone block, protruding from the grassy surface, inscribed with a crown and the letter 'S'.
This 'Salisbury stone' is a reminder of the old Wavertree Lake which existed on this site until 1929, and of a dispute between the Local Board and the Lord of the Manor as long ago as 1861. The Lake was a valued local asset; the existence of a water supply - springing from the original well - was probably the reason why a village developed here, the name 'Wavertree' having been translated by one scholar as "the place by the common pond". During the nineteenth century, however, it became very dirty and weed-infested, and the Local Board of Health decided to clean it up and plant trees round the edge. This provoked a reaction from the Marquess of Salisbury - Lord of the Manor of Wavertree - who ordered 'mere stones' (boundary markers) to be placed round the edge to show that it was his property rather than common land. Eventually the dispute was resolved - the Marquess agreeing to allow the Board to continue with its scheme - but one of the stones remains to this day.
Hi Jona76
Thanks for that great information about the Wavertree boundary stone, Jona76. Most interesting!
Chris
I think there is a pic of the one that says something about the Exchange in Our City, Our Heritage by O connor...i have lent out my book, so may need your help here Philip!:)Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipG
Here's the relevant pic.Quote:
Originally Posted by MissInformed
Checked today, and this milestone's still missing.
However, the Boundary Stone is still a few yards away on the other side of the door of the Old Bank in Aigburth Vale.
T T P = Township of Toxteth Park.
T G = Township of Garston.
Here's a location pic for the Rose Lane stone...the church is on the left near the top of the hill.
I've seen a few metal plates around, some with numbers some without. Are these mile posts? There's a numbered one at Aigburth rd. and The Serpentine.
Hello PhilipQuote:
Originally Posted by PhilipG
Many thanks for this. I worked for a while at what was then, in 1968, Martin's Bank in Aigburth Vale, on the eastern corner of Ashfield Road and Aigburth Road, which later became Barclay's Bank. This is pictured at Toxteth.net at http://www.toxteth.net/places/liverp...rth%20vale.htm
I am assuming that the "Old Bank" is what was when I worked there, Westminster Bank, on the other side of Ashfield Road, pictured on Toxteth.net at http://www.toxteth.net/places/liverp...20vale%202.htm
I am sorry to hear that the old mile marker is missing. I assume somebody might have it as a souvenir. :disgust:
Chris
Liverpool area boundary stone complete with dolly bird swinging her handbag. Perfect!Quote:
Originally Posted by marky
I have no opinion about the Aigburth Road and Serpentine marker that you saw. As we noted earlier, we might be drifting into corporation markers for gas and electric lines etc in contrast to the older boundary markers.
Chris
The bank on the Garston side is now a wine-bar.
The Boundary Stone is outside the former bank on the Liverpool side.
That building is now a sort of private Labour Exchange. "Work today. Get Paid today".
For years there were a few single storey shops before you got to Aigburth Vale.
(I think I mixed up Aigburth Vale with Ashfield Road before).
Those single storey shops and the building on the corner of the Vale have gone and have been replaced with a block of flats.
The ground floor is taken up with garages as that was historically an area prone to flooding.
At one stage a cinema was planned for that site. Not a lot of people know that!
Hi PhilipQuote:
Originally Posted by PhilipG
Yes last time I drove through Aigburth Vale, I was startled to see that where I labored as a bank clerk in 1968, the former Martin's and later Barclay's Bank, is now a wine bar! Thanks for clarifying that the boundary marker is on opposite street corner, beside the former bank on the Liverpool side, what had been "the opposition" -- Westminster Bank-- when I worked in the locality, but now a sort of private Labour Exchange. "Work today. Get Paid today". Incredible.
Good to know about the trivia that a cinema was actually mooted to go into the area at one time! Thanks, Philip.
Chris
Hi all
Found this railway boundary marker on Liverpool Parks and Suburbs. Stated to be "A boundary marker on the pavement of Smithdown Road." Can anyone place it more exactly?
http://www.redstarline.org.uk/images...s/boundary.jpg
Chris
I have never seen that!
I will have to have a look out for it..
thanks Chris!
Location of Railway metal plate: This is near the site of the old railway station, Smithdown rd. You can see it in the bottom-left corner of the following pic. It reads:
BOUNDARY POST
L. & N. W. Ry. Co.
that's brilliant marky!
all the times i have been along there, and never seen it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by marky
Hi Marky
Many thanks for tying down the exact location of this marker for us!
Chris
However, the Boundary Stone is still a few yards away on the other side of the door of the Old Bank in Aigburth Vale.
T T P = Township of Toxteth Park.
T G = Township of Garston.[/QUOTE]
I was very interested to see the reference to the Toxteth/ Garston boundary marker. It's one I'd not know about. Given that Aigburth is part of the township of Garston, does anyone know how the area of St Michael's , Lark Lane, Riverside Drive etc and indeed the whole of Sefton park are commonly stated to be in "Aigburth" when clearly they were and still are in Toxteth
The short answer is Snob Value.Quote:
Originally Posted by taffy
Ashfield Road is the boundary for Toxteth Park, and the boundary continues through the Otterspool estate (now Otterspol Park).
I've never been sure exactly where the boundaries of Aigburth are.
Riverside Drive might be called Aigburth by the residents, and is L17, but some of it is definitely Dingle. Dingle Point and Knott's Hole are right in the middle of it!
It's a bit like the residents of Lodge Lane changing the name of their section of the road to Sefton Park Road, even though the Lodge which gave its name to the road is there (Sefton Park Road, that is).
Another sore point with me is that all the South Docks are in L3, but the rest of the area is mostly L8.
:)hi philipQuote:
Originally Posted by PhilipG
I live near Otterspool on riverside drive, but my postcode is L3...I have often wondered what area I come under!! The letting agent told us DOCKLANDS...????:shock:
I always thought it would be Dingle...who knows eh?:)
Post codes are simply for the convenience of the Post office and do change. Thus a lot of what was L8 around the Dingle has become L17 or L3. Again not all L8 is in Toxteth, for example the Abercromby & Canning areas. These have of course been dubbed by estate agents " The Georgian" quarterQuote:
Originally Posted by MissInformed
hmmmm...
i know what you mean.
Alot of prices do depend on postcodes!:shock:
The Sanctuary Stone, Castle Street. The plaque is on the building occupied by The Furness Building Society.
Did anybody find out what this one was?Quote:
Originally Posted by MissInformed
It would seem that Boundary Stones do not have the date on them.
I'm pretty sure that the date doesn't refer to St Anne's Church.
I still don't think it's as old as 1820, but it might refer to something that happened then.
:) i don't think anyone did find out what this was.
it would be nice to know
Great to see, Marky. I have taken a pic of this stone in the past among other images of Liverpool historic locations that I photographed in black and white in the Sixties. I like that bit of duct tape you got on the side of the stone, ha ha.Quote:
Originally Posted by marky
In answer to MissInformed's question about the marker near St. Anne's church with the Liver Bird and the date 1820, I thought Philip G answered this question on November 25 in this thread, as follows:
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipG
Chris.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge
Since seeing the pics of boundary stones which have been put on this thread, it would appear that they do not have dates, but have letters for the area they are bounding (right word?).
Whereas the St Anne Street stone has a date, but no letters, which leads me to think that whatever it was, it wasn't a boundary stone.
Ain't that the truth! I used to catch the 61 from Aiggy Vale in my School Days and remember the pet shop literally bailing out after a heavy rain fall..they'd have been ok if they were selling ducks!Quote:
The ground floor is taken up with garages as that was historically an area prone to flooding.