The steps that local Dingle dockers used to walk down to Herculaneum Dock from Grafton Street.
http://www.liverpoolpictorial.co.uk/...s/image006.jpg
http://www.liverpoolpictorial.co.uk/...s/image008.jpg
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The steps that local Dingle dockers used to walk down to Herculaneum Dock from Grafton Street.
http://www.liverpoolpictorial.co.uk/...s/image006.jpg
http://www.liverpoolpictorial.co.uk/...s/image008.jpg
Fantastic Dave, cheers. They stick out like a sore thumb them when driving past. Somewhere I've always wondered about, why they were there, what they are used for now etc. Are they used now or not?
Nice one Davey
The steps were not for public use. The steps took men down to the Herculaneum Dock from Grafton St.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/watercity/Herc-2.jpg
These public housing looking flats are built on the infilled Herculaneum Dock. Nothing in the design incorporated anything relating to the maritime history of the site - these flats could be in an inland town. This development is a complete waste of a once magnificent waterspace, where Liberty ships of the World War Two convoys would muster to leave via the Herculaneum river locks. The blocks in view at the bottom of the steps are built upon the graving docks.
http://www.liverpoolpictorial.co.uk/...s/image008.jpg
The photo looking at the gas holder: The casemenst into the cliff can be seen. These held explosives and nuclear cargo. A quay ran along the foot of the cliff, where two large cranes which picked up whole railway wagons and tipped them into holds of ships bound for Northern Ireland. Where the flats are to the left was the docks and on the left side small tankers would pump petrol into the Dingle oil tanks which were to the left.
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/watercity...aneum-1907.jpg
The Herc in 1907. The Dingle petrol tanks can be seen and also the steps (just). The terraced houses off Grafton St, where Bread and the Liver Birds where shot are not yet built. The Overhead can be seen entering Dingle Tunnel and one of the vent shafts on the waste ground.
WW2 convoy ships would be abreast of each other and in rows, facing the river lock. When high tide came they had to get out ASAP, before the tide changed. This method meant they were pulled out fast into the river and were not hanging around being prey for lone bombers. The Germans knew tide times as well.
The local ex dockers I've spoken to were treated as slaves and couldn't give a toss about maritime history. They still think it's a novelty to walk down the steps unhindered, without being stopped and searched by some goon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterways
The dockers would walk through the Herc to the Harrington. They had a pen just off the Herc near the Harrington. The Dock Road was a dead end here with a large gate and policeman, and the dockers pen was inside the gate in a new light brick building on the left before the Herc was reached. Not much general cargo was unloaded/loaded at the Herc, being mainly coal and petro.Quote:
Originally Posted by scouserdave
The quay from the Harrington lock to the Grafton St cliff was mainly for berthing tugs and floating cranes. I once did see a cargo ship moored there and using its own derricks to unload with small mobile cranes loading the cargo onto trains - may have been a special cargo. Or the other docks must have been full.
Ships would enter the Herc from the Harrington and Toxteth Docks to go through the river locks - one can be seen in the picture entering from the Harrington, but modern ships were far more manoeuvrable than that old steamer. Many ships did not require tugs, as there was enough space to turn the ship in the Herc dock. Once lined up they could run through the locks themselves. Moss Hutchison and Elder Dempster ships would berth at the Harrington and use the Herc river locks. On the river wall of the Herc the river and sea buoys were repaired.
The Herc was built mainly for the graving docks. Ships spent a lot of time in them in the old wooden and iron riveted hull days. As welded steel hulls came about the robustness of hulls was increased and many graving docks were redundant. I can recall a few ships in the Herc graving docks - only a few.
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/5563/...umpierhead.jpg
The pic above: The Overhead railways bridge into the Dingle tunnel has been demolished. The photos is the late 1950s/early 1960s. The Harrington Dock transit sheds have not been rebuilt after German WW2 bombings. Ships are seen in the graving docks, a rare site towards the end. A Kelly Line collier is seen in the Herculaneum Dock near to Grafton Street near the coal loading crane.
The Dock Rd ended here. If you drove along the Dock Rd and didn't stop you would end up in the Herc dock.
http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/att...6&d=1171817172
Built around one of the graving Herc docks. Well this is only a few feet deep. What a shame.
How does that answer Daves assertion? ...you went off on a tangent lad >>>>>
No probs:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by FKoE
BTW, Operation Eden have been putting letters through local letterboxes asking for stories about the Steps. Waterways, your recollections would be welcome. Please send them to tom.veitch@liverpool.anglican.org
Alright David, long time no see? :PDT_Piratz_26:
Great photos, as per usual.
Have you any pics from the path over Woolton Quarry? It looks pretty similar from up there. Same Legoland-style sousing dumped in the middle as well. Without the water obviously.....
You have to admire his re-edit too... :rolleyes:
Hiya Mark, how's things? Sorry mate, I don't know Woolton that well and have never really explored the place apart from a photo job (name dropping!) for US rock writer Jim O'Donnell's autumn reprint of his 1996 book The Day John Met Paul: An Hour-By-Hour Account of How the Beatles Began.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunnyman
In all good book shops from October:celb (23):
Quote:
Originally Posted by scouserdave
..and how did it begin?
I find it bizarre that there is a gravestone in the churchyard of the church they met in with Eleanor Rigby written on it. Yet Paul McCartney knew nothing of it when writing the song - he tried a few names before hitting on Eleanor Rigby. The song was written over a period of time with a few contributing. Eleanor Rigby is hardly a common name.
Smashing photos.
My aunty lives in one of those roads leading up from Grafton st. Some great views from there.
@Waterways - great pics, much appreciated.
Dave, one long time member said ignore him and he will go away, as he will just be talking to himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by scouserdave
AND HIS NAME WAS MOSES......;)
Caps Lock :Colorz_Grey_PDT_16:Quote:
Originally Posted by FKoE
****, I never noticed those steps!
Could of saved time that time I rode down otterspool to the docks. But I rode back through to Aigburth!
Nice photos Dave. I wish I'd taken some photos before they built the flats there - I remember when it used to just be wasteland with all the petroleum stores still visible. Still, nice to see they've been kept - I take it they're used for storage?
Wheres the tip thats in Otterspool?
At the very end of Jericho Lane.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max
The Dingle Steps down to the Herculaneum Dock are a public right of
way.
The gate at the top used to be locked at sunset - I don't know if it still is.
Great pictures. I wonder though if the steps could have originated from earlier, when theQuote:
Originally Posted by Waterways
Herculaneum Pottery was in existence preceding the building of Herculaneum Dock?
According to Robert Griffiths' The History of the Royal and Ancient Park of Toxteth, Liverpool (1907), p. 48-49, the Pottery was demolished in 1841
to build the dock. In which case, those steps could have been used for the potteries workers to get to work preceding their use by the
dockers.
Chris
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge
The steps were built to give access to the Herculaneum Dock which opened in 1864.
This is not the site of the
Herculaneum Pottery which was at the very end of Wellington Road, on the shore, on the Liverpool side.
Part of Harrington Dock came to cover the site of
the Pottery.
Okay, thanks, Philip,Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipG
for that clarification.
Chris
The housing on the Herculaneum Dock has an L3 postcode.
In fact, all the South Docks are L3.
They can get away with it, because the docks always were private property.
Grafton Street on one side is L8 and so is Riverside Drive on the other.
We live on Riverside Drive, and our postcode is L3.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipG
Whereabouts in Riverside Drive, Carrie?Quote:
Originally Posted by MissInformed
It's definitely L8 exactly opposite that L3 sign I took a photo of, and then I walked towards the Garden Festival site where L17 starts.
i dont want to say exactly where i live on here philip, but my postcode is definitely L3.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipG
I even emailed the council about trying to define my area. They said Toxteth, Dingle, or Otterspool could be my area! So, basically pick!
When I used to work for Psygnosis (before it was purchased by Sony), the building was the one next to the Jaguar Showroom and the dock there was used as a cracking 0-60 'time your car' ground as long as you could brake before the corner.....Quote:
Originally Posted by snappel
Not surprisingly I had my first crash there :rolleyes: :)
I get the impression that the road itself is L8 (and some business properties?), but private dwellings are L3. I took a picture of that Riverside Drive L8 sign yesterday...it was the only one I noticed. Near the start of Herculaneum Dock (opposite Jaguar House) there is a Sefton Street L8 sign (fixed to the low wall that cars keep hitting). I haven't checked to see if there are any Riverside Drive L3 signs. An area around the Horsfall Ramp went from L3 to L8 in the early to mid 1990s. A new business is there now (next door to the train station) but I don't know its' postcode.
Is the rule of thumb that all properties within the south docks estate are designated as being in L3?
I think I've figured it out.
Marky, you're right about the road because it's not privately owned.
The Herculaneum and the South Docks are private property.
Once you step onto the Promenade (if that's what it's called) it's the property of British Waterways (I noticed today - God knows why), and I'm surmising that too is L3, as are the docks, but the road itself is L8.
It's the Otterspool reference that confuses me.
Otterspool is by Jericho Lane, a fair distance away from this newly created L3.
Mind you, if L3 goes right up to the edge of Dingle Bank - which it does - then anything's possible.
London Road is L3.
It's all Toxteth really which runs from Parliament St to Otterspool Park This includes all the the mid line of the River Mersey. This is perhaps clearly seen in the parish boundaries for St Cleopas Toxteth and St Gabriel Toxteth which despite being in the " Dingle" include all those delightful new flats down by the riverQuote:
Originally Posted by MissInformed
Here's some pics showing Herculaneum and South Docks...if you've got £400.00 to spare.
http://www.oldmapsprintsbooks.co.uk/3623.htm
Just to confuse, my late 1990s Liverpool A-Z has Ellerman Rd as L8 in the index pages, but within the dotted line of the L3 area on the actual map pages.
Are those terraced houses still on Grafton St,my Aunt lived there the where the McQueen family, I use to spend a lot of time there when I was young ,looking thru the railings at the ships, many a summer night walked the full lenght of thos railings , thanks for the memories , Maggie CanadaQuote:
Originally Posted by scouserdave
All the streets are still there as far as I know. Welcome aboard!
Kev