Quote:
Originally Posted by captain kong
I meant George Skelly, the author of the book. In that book I think he says his brother Jimmy is no longer alive. And even if Santangeli is not interested maybe he could locate George for you.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captain kong
I meant George Skelly, the author of the book. In that book I think he says his brother Jimmy is no longer alive. And even if Santangeli is not interested maybe he could locate George for you.
George Skelly probably wouldn't want to speak to Canadian Lad either as all the answers are in his book anyway.
George is also an old friend, we are in daily contact and he doesnt want to know. The deeds have been done and no amount of conjecture can change a thing.
Just enjoy the book.
George Skelly is a good friend of mine. I could put Canadian lad in touch with him if he wanted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by underworld
There you go. Over to you, Lad!
Hi Emma.
I dont know if this is any use, but here goes.
I used to care for a man called Harry Jones who died 5yrs ago. He and his cousin who were 15 at the time were the first to be arrested by Balmer. They had delivered some hardware to the cinema the previous night and were chatting up the usherette. This was construed by Balmer as 'casing the joint'. Only cast iron alibis saved them from the gallows as Balmer had a history of nailing anybody regardless of the truth. He also was well known amongst local publicans of running protection rackets and supplying spirits from the usa from burtonwood airbase. It is reported that he even had his own private jeep supplied by the yanks. His whole team were renowned for corruption. Can you imagine being locked in a cell at 15, threatened with death, at the hands of a man like Balmer and without recourse to legal representation? Harry told me all about his experience in this case which is absolutely shocking. Good luck.
Mike Parker
If you want, my phone is 07540642264
What you have to say, really proves the veracity of George Skelly's book. Your account of how 15-year-old Harold Jones was treated tallies exactly with the account account in The Cameo Conspiracy. But how do you know all about Balmer's other activities if not from Skelly's book? Or do you have personal knowledge?
Here's another account of Balmer's handling of a murder case.
http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/sho...ne-Road-Murder
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Yes, I've read that thread about the Cranborne Road Murder. I just hope that when that book comes out, we dont have the usual bunch of local "experts" on the case trotting out their "own"pre- knowledge of the case, as they have done ever since the two Cameo books were published!!
Totally agree with you. I thought George's book on the Cameo Murders was brilliant and so well researched. I'd never heard of the Cranborne murders until I read about Balmer, and am looking forward to GS's book on this carriage of misjustice.Quote:
Originally Posted by irishboyo
Anyone know a publication date yet?
I dont know any publication date. But I agree with you that Skelly's Cameo book was very well researched. And it is because i know how much effort goes into such research over many years in order to produce such an investigative book, that it really annoys me when people, after reading the book/s, then start pontificating and offering theories, information and explanations etc, as if from their own expert knowledge of the case/s, rather than having the courtesy to attribute the source of their information/knowledge to the author who actually did the hard graft.
.
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I have recieved an email from George Skelly, he is giving a talk at the St Georges Hall about the Cameo,
I shall be giving a half hour talk at St George's Hall on Sat, 20th March on "Liverpool Juries: Did They Make The Right Decisions?" It will include examinations of the Wallace,Cameo and Cranborne Road trials.
George.
Should be very interesting, BE THERE.
I will go = what time please Kong?
Hi Burkhilly,
I have sent him an email asking him, I will let you know later
Cheers.
Here is George`s reply,
Brian the Talk is 11 am in the Civil Court.
.
Thanks,
George
I look forward to hearing that.Quote:
Originally Posted by captain kong
A new email from George Skelly.................re the talk on the Wallace, Cameo and Burns and Devlin cases at St Georges Hall in the Civil Court.
HI Brian
Have been informed that the talk is a Tickets affair, which are obtainable from St Georges Hall and Radio Merseyside, "from sometime this week".
At the moment they are free. But I'm told they may charge £1 on the door!
Proceeds are to the Lord Mayor's Charity Fund.
Thanks Brian.
Dont forget. George Skelly is giving his talk at the Court in St Georges Hall at 11am IN THE MORNING, SATURDAY 20 MARCH
I shall be giving a half hour talk at St George's Hall on Sat, 20th March on "Liverpool Juries: Did They Make The Right Decisions?" It will include examinations of the Wallace,Cameo and Cranborne Road trials.
George.
Did anyone attend the Talk by George Skelly at St Georges Hall Couirt. last Saturday, if so what did you think about it. Have you any comments on the subject???
It was too early for me, I was over the road in the records office until mid day. I would be interested to know what he had to say regarding the Wallace trial though I think most everything has already been said that can be.
I attended. And so I believe did Burkhilly. it was a great Talk. People were still queuing up outside after the talk had started. It was so packed people were sitting in the jury box and the press box. They even had to bring in extra chairs for people to sit in the Dock of the court!
Re the Wallace case Mr Skelly pointed out an important point in the context of juries verdicts. i.e. The Court of Appeal over-ruled the jury's Guilty verdict as "perverse" and not in keeping with the evidence. In other words their verdict was based on prejudice against Wallace. Yet, he pointed out in the subsequent 1950s Cameo, Devlin and Burns cases (and the earlier 1947 Walter Rowland case) the Appeal court - even when there was new evidence - would not hear fresh evidence or order retrials, Lord Goddard Stating, "We cannmot usurp the verdict of a jury". Like I say, a very important point which led to Rowland, Kelly, Devlin and Burns being wrongly hanged. Quite rightly Mr Skelly received great applause at the end. It was a fascinating and revealing Talk,
Great stuff.
It was a great talk. I particularly liked the similarities in the Cameo and Cranbourne Road murders (Insp Balmer, dodgy witnesses). I also wanted to ask George when his book on the Cranbourne Road Murder would be published, which will be in about nine months. I would have liked to ask one question, which is did he know why Balmer targeted Devlin and Burns, who came from Manchester, and fabricate the evidence that resulted in them being convicted? Hopefully this question will be answered when the book is published.
I know quite a lot about the Cameo Murders, through George's book and have read it on numerous occasions. I don't know a lot about the Wallace case, well not the way Ged does anyway! As for the Cranbourne Road Murder, I only know what I've read on Yo and a couple of other sites. i am really looking forward to reading this book, as the research GK has clearly done, will hopefully lead to Devlin and Burns being pardoned.
One of the main points I think was the fact that the police were so respected during past times, that juries didn't even contemplate a police officer lying or fabricating evidence. In the Cranbourne Road murder, the jury were asked to believe that two burglars had been in the house when the victim returned home. The burglars then killed her and left the house without taking anything. Devlin and Burns had never been involved in violence and had an alibi that they had been breaking into a warehouse in Bolton at the time Mrs Rimmer was murdered.
I just wish the talk had lasted longer - this for me was the highlight of the day.
Actually, Burkhilly, Mr Skelly did state that one of the reasons D&B were selected was that they were both on the run from the Manchester police and had been consorting with two young prostitutes in Liverpool at the time of the murder. (shades of jackie Dickson in the Cameo case). Also he did say their alibi was that they were breaking into a clothing warehouse in Manchester (not Bolton) and had produced numerous alibi witnesses, including their friend who had been convicted of it, yet the Liverpool jury still found them guilty. Shameful!
I too am looking forward to the full story in Mr Skelly's book.
By the way, by listening to the Radio Merseyside website, "listen again", I was able to hear an interview Mr Skelly did with Billy Butleron satrurday beforegiving his Talk.
Thanks for correcting me on my errors - which is why I'm looking forward to GS's book. As you say it is shameful that two young men were convicted and then hanged. The most poignant thing I heard during the talk was that the two young men are buried under a car park and their grave is marked by a tiny metal tag thingy. I felt really sad and close tears, believe it or not. I really hope that they are pardoned and the conviction quashed, which is clearly what GS would like to happen.
Thanks for the reports on George Skelly's talk, guys. :handclap:
C
I've heard elsewhere Burkhilly, that you may get what you hope for. mr Skelly has, i believe , as well as writing the book, referred the case to the Criminal Cases Review Commission with a view to exonerating the two men in the Court of Appeal
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I know that he was re buried in Allerton Cem, anyone know which RC section and plot number
Or was he cremated in Springwood
Thanks
Yes he is buried in Allerton Cemetery. My photos of his grave are on post 174 on this thread . His grave is (or was last year) unmarked and a shambles. The location is through the cemetery gates off Allerton road and then turn left. His grave is facing the entrance to Clarkes Gardens/Allerton Hall seperated from the road by the railings. In other words if you stood with your back to Allerton Hall and looked through the railings across the road, its there. Got a bamboo cheap surround on the grave and covered in crap. Disgraceful!
many thanks I will have a look on my travelsQuote:
Originally Posted by underworld
Steve
Think I've just spent the best part of an hour reading the posts on this thread and found it absolutely fascinating. I'd never been aware of any of the cases discussed until reading the thread. Just ordered a copy of George Skellys book with the library and look forward to reading it.
It's obvious that the whole affair was a tragic miscarriage of justice caused, in my opinion, by what appears to be a dubious "arm of the law". My heart goes out to the families of the victims who are no nearer now to seeing any sort of closure as they were 60 odd years ago.
I wouldnt be too sure of your last sentence. Mr Skelly's book was partly instrumental in having Kelly and Connolly's convictions quashed by the Court of Appeal in 2003. I'm sure he will succeed likewise in the cases of Devlin and Burns - both with his forthcoming book and his referral of the case to the CCRC.Quote:
Originally Posted by gynsman
I still maintain that its the best book ive ever read (and I've read a fair few). Read it and believe it, it's all true. George Skelly is a good friend of mine I am proud to say. Hopefully the reaction of Liverpool People to Balmer will be more vociferous than it was after the Cameo appeal and that the authorities will 1. Apologise for what happened (Chief Constable Merseyside Police on behalf of the Liverpool city Police), 2. Liverpool city council apologise on behalf of the Watch Committee members who lavished awards on the investigation team and withdraw those awards 3. Re-investigate the crimes if that is indeed possible after all these years and investigate any participant of the investigation that may be still alive and finaly 4. Withdaw Balmers OBE and KPM that he was awarded on the back of these investigations. The Home Office tell me that this cannot be done as the regulations dont permit it, maybe its time the regulations were changed. Balmer lied and an innocent man was hanged by the neck for it. The appeal judges said Balmer lied and that is good enough for me. A third murder was committed in this case and Balmer was the killer.Quote:
Originally Posted by steveb
Oh and one more wrong that should be perhaps put right. The city council and perhaps the Police should pay for a proper headstone for George Kelly, a nice elaborate one because i reckon his last resting place was more dignified when he was under the car park at Walton prison!
Gynsman, dont be taken in by the family. I know how they treated George Skelly and Lou Santangeli after the appeal and you would not believe it. There is only one reason why they have an interest in "Uncle George" and that is all in the title of an Abba no 1!
Here is a photo of George Kelly`s funeral,
A cold wet day. George Skelly and I were refused admission to the Cathedral, they had Security men on the door.
I remember, you had to stand outside the doors of the Cathedral in the pouring rain. I should have been there but i couldn't go. Nice way to treat somebody who exposed the truth wasn't it!
Thanks underworld, what is the book title so that I can buy it.
I agree that a fitting stone should be provided by the Police
Thanks to a friend in Allerton I have the section and plot details.
Thanks
Steve