If Wallace was the murder he was a clever one, but not clever enough to split himself in two and ring himself eh!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
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If Wallace was the murder he was a clever one, but not clever enough to split himself in two and ring himself eh!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
Aye. Another question is - did the caller botch the call up on purpose knowing it would be traced - or not.
Certainly if Wallace was the caller, he would'nt want it known it was a call box near to his home so why not ring in from near the cafe, then turn up 5 mins later? He could easily have been seen, being known in the area too so when the call trace transpired it was near his home and he'd been spotted, that would be that.
Could the 'real murderer' have botched it on purpose knowing the call would be traced to a box near Wallace's home and so put him in the frame.
Would any caller know that a call could be traced?
Personally I don't hold much weight by the fact that the call box was near Wallaces' home. It was also near a load more homes!
:)
My sister used to work with the GPO from about 1965 onwards - mainly at the Heswall telephone exchange, then later at the (haunted!) one just off Lodge Lane, in Liverpool. She always used to say that any suggestion of a call being traced - even as late as the 60s - would have meant engineers wheeling in massive amounts of equipment, and even then it would have had to have been in anticipation of an actual call needing tracing. Whether she's right or wrong on this, I don't know, but I should imagine it was something of a no-no for the 1930s.
The call to Wallace bears some thinking about, if we assume it to be directly related, in some way, to Julia Wallace's murder - and not just purely coincidental.
If you wanted him out of the way for an hour or so - so you could creep in and murder his wife - why would you take the risk of supplying a fictional address which, in his line of work and with such an expansive clientele, he might well have tumbled to at once? Then again, given the necessarily pedantic nature of of someone in the insurance trade, you might have fully expected him to check up on the location of his destination before he actually left the house. Really, you just wouldn't take that risk. Seems to me, he wanted an alibi for his whereabouts on that night circulated as widely as possible. Which isn't to suggest he was the actual murderer - but I still strongly suspect he was connected in some way with its planning.
But he knew where Menlove Gardens West was so he could easily assume he'd find East when he got up there. Why not create an alibi with a real address then, knock on the house (only obviously to be told he was mistaken) and still have an alibi, why rely on meeting a bobby on patrol. He could even knock next door first pretending he thought it was the house so he could be told no it's next door you want. Why not an address further out that would give him longer? Doing all of this, he could still have pestered the tram conductor as he did to make sure he got off at the right stop etc.
Hi Murphy deals with the fictional address quite well in his book
He says that the caller meant to say West and not east but made a mistake
Of course Murphy is working on the assumption that Wallace was the caller
When the message is relayed to Wallace he begins to write the address down as West but he is corrected.:shock:
There is some controversy concerning the telephone call - Gladys Harley stated that the line wasn't engaged and no-one had used the phone for about half an hour at the cafe. Yet there was talk that the operator said the line was engaged. Telephone technician Leslie Heaton stated in his testimony that the phone had a technical fault. Bear in mind that the call was traced the Wednesday 21st (I believe). The phone could actually have recieved the fault after the Monday message. I suppose we'll never know exactly.
Re: Tracing of call. Personally I have always thought that the idea of WHW using a box so close to his home is questionable. When I first read this case many, many years ago, the first thing I thought was that it was someone else deliberately going out of their way to cause enough commotion for the call to be traced, thereby implicating Wallace. I think that there is a good chance that Qualtrough (whether it be Wallace or someone else) could have thought the call could have been traced. Wallace had a scientific mind and, after all, it was actually traced.
I recreated the Close Route that he took on the evening of 20th January 1931, and I have to say that I do not believe he would have completed that part of the round in 6 minutes. I used a stopwatch and it took me 5 minutes 31 seconds just to walk the route, not taking into consideration the stops Close would have had to make. I was also walking at a fair pace. I know some of the route is inaccessible but I recreated it in a way to overcome some of the obstacles. I honestly believe that Close would have at least taken 8 minutes.
In his statement Wallace claimed he walked up here on 20th January 1931. The steps are virtually unchanged since then.
Great stuff Mark. Thanks for the photies and info. They do look ancient.
Cor, I used to live around there for awhile and have walked up those steps many times. To think I,ve walked in the steps of a murderer. Or maybe not.
It,s spooky:shock:
Those steps, I have walked up and down them literally trillions of times.
That walk from Sedley st down to Wolverton st was part of my childhood.
There was a little shop at the top of the steps (that's the side wall of it on Marks photo) .. I spent my pocket money in there every week. :)
We used to leg it up the hill from Wolverton st so we always refered to the shop as 'up the slope' .. '' mum ! can I have sixpence to go up the slope !'' :)
The shop is empty now and boarded up. I still pass by that way quite often.
The front bay window of our house looked over to the Wallace house. When we were kids we used to try and scare each other with tales about there being blood on the walls ! :shock: :)
Interesting reminiscences Lindylou - great stuff!
.. and here is the little shop 'up the slope' :)
It's a shame to see it derelict, it used to be thriving. I remember very well the Irish people who owned it.
Is that an arrow bar wrapper on the floor?
ha,ha, I used to buy them too :D
You'd bite it and pull it away from you to snap it off and it'd go further out than your arm would reach (on a warm day)
On a hot day, the paper would stick to it and you'd spend longer unwrapping it than eating it.
Penny Arrows, for an old penny.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
Enough of a mouthful to shut you up for a while.
Gobstoppers that changed colours, so you had to keep getting your mucky fingers on them to have a look.
2d Sherbert Fountains.
A six of chips in a paper made cone, and drinking the vinegar that was left.
Smith's Crisps with the salt in a little blue twist of paper.
I'd better stop, as I'm off to the shops.
I go on the Southport site and tell them off for going off-topic (which they do a lot), and I'm guilty here.
Sorry, Kev.
Good memories. Thanks for the pics Mark and Lindy, keep em coming.
The back doors of nos. 31 & 29 are the doors to the left of the tyre. This was where WHW met the Johnstons at about 8.45 on the evening of 20th January 1931.
Atkinson's Garage (Moscow Drive). John Parkes claimed RGP came to here on the evening of 20th January to have his car 'hosed down.'
Great old building. What are those premises used for now I wonder?
It looks closed up, at one time they were the biggest hackney carriage fleet owners in the city and had been since the days of horse cabs.
I think the garage is still owned by the Atkinson family
I used to go past this garage about 4 years ago and it was full of black cabs being worked upon.
Mark, see if you can find out, I would be interested, just being nosey. I used to live in Sutton St. and was in the cab biz before I emigrated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark R
I'll try to ST.
At approximately 8.45 on the evening of 20th January 1931 William Herbert Wallace was met by John Sharpe Johnston and Florence Johnston here.
You can picture it can't you, takes you back in time (minus the purple bins)
It certainly does. The same cobbles...I am hoping to write a book (and build a website) on the subject.
Hi MarkQuote:
Originally Posted by Mark R
The best of luck to you in those endeavours. :PDT11 Keep us posted on your progress on them.
Chris
Did you bunk over, or did someone leave the alleygate open?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark R
Thanks Chris. Will do.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge
Mark
The alleygate was left open so I thought I would just take a look!Quote:
Originally Posted by SteH
On Thursday 22nd January, 1931, Wallace met up with club captain Samuel Beattie and James Caird on the corner here (at about 10.20 - 10.30). Wallace asked Beattie whether he could "get any nearer" (to the time that the call was made to the chess club). Wallace also told Beattie that "the police have cleared me". Little did Wallace know that the police were actually following him.
Photo: ©Liverpool Libraries and Information Services
It is still used as a cab garage. I went past the other day and there was a fleet of black cabs there! The company was foundered in 1910. I wrote recently to the company to see if I can get inside and have a look around. I'll see if I get any reply.Quote:
Originally Posted by shytalk
I recently obtained The Man From The Pru from a local DVD company. The picture is not too bad.
Here's the link:
http://www.liverpoolartistes.com/ind...=data_home&a=2
I've got that one, quite good isn't it.
:)Thanks for that Mark, will keep the link on file for future reference