Hello Babaconda, thanks for sharing your excellent pics :PDT11
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Hello Babaconda, thanks for sharing your excellent pics :PDT11
great photos Baba. Stay safe going around those rails, and keep taking photos. :)
wow the old st james station photos are great no photos can be took of this site anymore and i cant belive u actally got down there when i pass the site on the train it goes past to fast i can never get a good photo of it lol there is rumors of this station reopening hope it does, there are a few stations i cant get to that i would love to see what is left i went to wavetree station yesterday and took photos as i got in the door that blocks the entry to the old staion site it is probley sealed back up now so i was lucky to get the photos a station i would love to see what is left is spellow but i cant get down there and i cant see over the wall it was very similar to st james station in a deep cutting hope you get the chance to get photos of what it looks like now my site is www.oldliverpoolrailways.tk if anyones intrested
Amazing, thanks for these pictures and the offer of more!Quote:
Originally Posted by babaconda
Two quick questions: there is a black door in the wall at Liverpool Central on the north end of the Southport platform. Ive always wondered what that was for (and where it went)
And another random door one :rolleyes:, there are a few large white doors at Moorfields Old Hall street entrance, and there is even a seperate (closed) entrance next to the main one that has just a Wirral Line sign over it. It even looks like there is space for an extra escalator, too. I'm thinking its a dedicated passage to the wirral platform that was never used.
Thanks! :D
Could you describe in more detail where this is? Is it in the wall on the far side of the railway? As you look towards Southport is it on the left?Quote:
Originally Posted by SKie
Its probably nothing too exciting. There are a lot of small rooms around for water pumps. Water is continuously being removed from the tunnels.
Again I'll try to find out what its for but it might take me a while!
Yep, on the far side under all the station signs. The dor is partially cut into the corrugated wall covering. There are two large holes near it so it could be for ventilation.Quote:
Originally Posted by babaconda
Thanks!
A station there, or at Smithdown Rd, would be really useful. Especially with all the students in the area. Someone here posted something ages ago about Merseyrail having it in their long-term plans to reopen some of these old stations, including the Sefton Park (Smithdown Rd) one. Of course they'd have to rebuild it first though.Quote:
Originally Posted by marie
I still say that Liverpool Council would be sitting on a gold mine by re-opening the Halewood/Bootle loopline with an old set of steam trains. All of the structures are still there, the station exit and entrances are still there and it is such a place to travel as you feel you are out in the country when you head through halewood. There is no direct way to get from say West Derby to Gateacre on transport, but hop on an old steam train through the West Derby cutting would be magical!
good point about liverpool central and the black door well i found out resantly that it leads to another unused platform built in the 1970s when the loop line was built if you look out the window just before you reach liverpool central from moorfields i have a photo somewhere that a worker for merseyrail took you will see the old blocked tunnel that leads to the disused platform it was built for another line that was planned that would used the waterloo tunnel but the idea and platform have been forgot about since the 1970s but now in 2007 merseyrail are to upgrade liverpool central and they could use this platform as they are plannin to reuse the waterloo tunnel hope it happens as for other stations reopening it will happen but only in the long run it will take time and money
I know exactly where you mean. In the run up to where the platform is there are a lot of equipment cupboards. Its not impossible to move these. But it would take a lot of time. I haven't heard anything about them opening an extra platform. And I work on the tracks.Quote:
Originally Posted by oritelad
At Crown Street you can still see that it was a goods trminal eventhough it's a park now as you can see in the middle were the turn table would have been at one time and where all the line would have split off.Quote:
Originally Posted by mike delamar
As i recently wenrt up there on my bike and it was an ammazing seen as you can also see that the walls are still railway brick ones as it also shows that things were built to last.
I have read somwere else that the Platform was built for the purpouse of use whilst Liverpool Central Station was undergoing refurbishment works during the 19.70's.Quote:
Originally Posted by babaconda
I think it was in use when they were building the deep level platform for the wirral line.
Also can anyone plaese tell me if the Waterloo Tunel is the one that you can see to the left as you leave Liverpool Central towards Morrfeilds and Southport etc which was the part of the origional Wirral Line.?
Thank,s mike....... i think the video on you tube is super, i always wanted
to know what was under county road, i,ve been told that there were
platforms still down there but how long for, i alway,s thought it would
make a great route for the mersey tram...which has been scraped or has it.....these yob,s who vandlise our train,s & buses should be sent down to clean up the mess that has been dumped on our tracks around liverpool.. :034: ps i love the engine sound of the class 20.....choo choo.....
That tunnel you are talking about is called the Stock Interchange. No passenger trains use that part of the line. It is used for sending empty stock to the wirral line from the northern line. Its also a very dirty part of the world :)Quote:
Originally Posted by John_142
Also if you walk down that part of the line you'll end up in James Street
Yes thanks for that i knew it went to james street as it is part of the old wirral line as i have seen photos in a book of trains at Liverpool Central boarding for Rock Ferry from the now Northern Line Southport Bound Platform.Quote:
Originally Posted by babaconda
But was wondering were waterloo tunnel actually is.?
I've not heard of the Waterloo tunnel. I'll look into it though. A lot of places have 'local' names. The local lad call the Birkenhead park branch from Ham Square the 'Dive Under'.
Also I work on Merseyrail and not on the Main line. So if it is part of that I might not know it too well. I've not worked on that part of the Railway for about 7 years!
Also most tunnel names refer to the street name on the surface above ground.
eg. Hinderton field tunnel (by birkenhead central)
Maybe waterloo tunnel in near Waterloo road.
Quote:
Originally Posted by babaconda
----
It is the one they keep talking about re-oppeing to link the Merseyrail up to Edge Hill again.
I have seen pictures of it on the Old Liverpool Railways web site but wondered where it acctually is in Liverpool.?
There is already a link to the merseyrail from edge hill. Towards the olive mount end of edge hill. It comes out at bootle junction where there are points to move across to the merseyrail.
Engineering trains use this branch all the time. Also freight trains use that line a lot during the day and night.
I really can't see them opening a "new" line which would cost millions. I can't see what profit they would make by opening that tunnel again.
Let face it, they only do things these days yo make profit. If you can see how they would make profit then please let me know.
Well, the two disused tunnels (victoria/wapping) both go under some of the least "connected" areas of Liverpool and both head up to edge hill and could therefore easily be linked back into the merseyrail network if the bootle branch is 3rd railed as LFC want.
The University and residential traffic alone would probably be enough to justify re-opening those tunnels. The original merseyrail loop & link was designed with this in mind, so the spurs have already been dug and construction of something like that wouldn't disrupt the network as much as if the spurs weren't already there.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...Merseyrail.jpg
The Waterloo Tunnel is still as built in the early 1800s. Nothing has been cut into it being one long tunnel from Edge Hill to the Costco Car park, where the Waterloo Goods Yard Depot was. This goods depot was closed down in the 1880s or so. The line was extended over the Dock Road and into the new Riverside Station at te Pier Head. A policeman had to hold up Dock Rd tarffic as the train went across the road. There was one station on the Waterloo Tunnel at the Fontenoy cutting. Parts of the old station is still there. The Waterloo Tunnel was closed in 1972 along with Riverside Station. The station at the Fontenoy cutting? I'm don't know when that closed, I assume well before 1972.Quote:
Originally Posted by John_142
As Central Docks is to be heavily built up with residential apartments, it makes sense to rebuild a station at the end of the tunnel. The line could also join the Merseyrail Northern line at this point. Fontenoy could be brought bacjk into use and staions are seriously proposed at London Road by cutting a station into the tunnel.
As the centre and dock areas are to be heavily built up with apartments, both the Wapping and Waterloo tunnels will be brought back into use. That is what Merseyrail propose.
Another tunnel that is ripe for re-use is the Dingle Tunnel and underground Dingle station which is still intact. A gantry would need to be built taking trains from the Herculaneum Dock exit of the tunnel, which is high up on the cliff side, to the lower level Merseyrail line beneath. This would re-generate the Dingle area. The original plan was to extend the Overhead further inland from Dingle, but it never came about. If the city increases its population, extending the tunnel may make sense in the future.
yes the station at the fontenoy cutting in the waterloo tunnel is a mystery it was called hodson station as it used to be on the road hodson street witch the old bridge that crosses the cutting used to be thats the only bit of the road left after the fontenoy gardens closed down the whole area was redeveloped this cutting now though would make a great station also a station at london road by the national express coach stops you can still see the old round vent for the waterloo tunnel by the main entrance also another by the royal hospital this would be great for hospital traffic and university traffic also as the waterloo tunnel is right next to the northern line as it goes underground to moorfields a station has been planned there called vauxhall this would connect the lines that just need to curve into the tunnel entrance i think merseyrail plan to use the waterloo tunnel first to extend the merseyrail network the wapping tunnel is not as in a busy area as the waterloo tunnel work has already started on the waterloo tunnel if you look from the train as you pass the site you will see what i mean
The station would have been there much before Fontenoy Gardens was ever built. When was it decommissioned?Quote:
Originally Posted by oritelad
Where is this work? At the end by Costco? Both tunnels will run through, or serve, busy areas when construction is more advanced on the Central Docks and South End docks. and bit between. If developers know a station was to be built in a certain location they would be attracted to build in that location. For e.g., if the Dingle station was to be re-commissioned, developers would want to built around that station and then re-generation. Just as the Brunswick Station has been an attraction for development around Brunswick and Herculaneum Docks areas.Quote:
this cutting now though would make a great station also a station at london road by the national express coach stops. You can still see the old round vent for the waterloo tunnel by the main entrance also another by the royal hospital this would be great for hospital traffic and university traffic also as the waterloo tunnel is right next to the northern line as it goes underground to Moorfields. A station has been planned there called Vauxhall, this would connect the lines that just need to curve into the tunnel entrance. I think merseyrail plan to use the waterloo tunnel first to extend the merseyrail network. The wapping tunnel is not as in a busy area as the waterloo tunnel work has already started on the waterloo tunnel if you look from the train as you pass the site you will see what i mean
Not using this wonderful underground legacy of our forefathers is nothing but irresponsible.
The Hodson St station. This was in a cutting with a tunnel in and out at either end of the platforms. As was St James station on Parly. I always refer to these stations as "semi-underground" stations, as that is what they are.
Hodson St Station. Is this station on the 1850 map? Someone has that on this forum. Would be interesting.
The city has to extend the rail system, especially the underground aspect. Cars have to be pushed back and the city given back to the people. The wasteland called The Strand should be pedestrianised, with added attractions - think Ramblas in Barcelona. As should be much of the Dock Rd. This urban motorway divides the city from the water spaces.
Note: please use capital letters, commas and full stops.
:-)
"Photographs of the SIte of the Waterloo Tunnel would be great"Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterways
Hit the links of the footers:Quote:
Originally Posted by John_142
The tunnel is here:
http://www.oldliverpoolrailways.tk/
Tell me i have now seen the Waterloo Tunnel at Edge Hill it was stering me in the face all the time so was this part of the Old Liverpool Loop Line that went all the way round through to Halewood which section is no a cycle path and passes under edge lane.Quote:
Originally Posted by SKie
"It would be great if someone could upload a detailed map":PDT_Xtremez_12:Quote:
Originally Posted by John_142
The map (of which I've got a copy but can't attach to the forum) starts from Halewood, in to Woolton (by Halewood Road), through Gateacre, through the bottom end of Childwall (Childwall Valley Road), up to Broadgreen by Thomas Lane, up to the back of behind Alder Hey, through West Derby passing not too far from the Jolly Miller.....Quote:
Originally Posted by John_142
Doesn't touch Edge Hill at all.
The old Edge Hill Crown Street station would take you from under Overbury Street/Tunnel Road and then bear right in a U turn almost under Picton Road.
Waterloo tunnel which I walked through around 1978 goes only from Gt Howard st (we got in off Pall Mall) and goes through to Edge Hill ascending gradually. We could see the daylight getting in at Fonney Oy Gardens and then later via the shaft behind Norton St as we progressed onwards and upwards, the light at the beginning of the tunnel quickly disappeared as we went uphill. The cycle path old loop line goes from Halewood to Bootle and is open air and not connected to Edge Hill at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
Until you get to Thomas Lane and it's as pitch black as anything:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eTwR4Fkh0c8
So the Waterloo tunnel was nothing to do with the Old Liverpool Loop Line then.!
But was was the actuall route of the line that used the waterloo tunnel and am i correct in thinking that part of the line is the one that runs at a lower level than the Northern Line at Bootle as this disapers in to a tunnel simmiler to the on at Edge Hill.:002:
The Waterloo tunnel doesn't go anywhere near Bootle John. It runs in a straight line, all underground from Gt Howard street to Edge Hill, the entrance at Gt Howard street and into the tunnel for a hundred yards or so is now filled with old tyres. It runs under Pall Mall , Gascoyne st, Vauxhall road in a South Easterly direction, the first cutting can be seen at Byrom Street. It continues under Hunter street (under 2 old burial grounds actually), then under Islington and the next ventilation shaft is on Norton street behind the coach station. It runs under Pembroke Place, the University grounds at Ashton st then under Crown st and Archbishop Blanch school where another shaft is visible above ground, then under Mason street, Highgate st, Kingslake st (it's been running almost parallel with the Lime street mainline since Norton st, but underground) - then under Overton st and Chatsworth drive and into Edge Hill. I have an old A-Z that maps the route.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John_142
You need to look at the odd map:
The one below shows the Waterloo Goods yard and the tunnel. From Edge Hill there was two direct tunnels fanning out. One to the south dock, the Wapping Tunnel, to Wapping/Queens Docks, and one to the north end docks, the Waterloo Tunnel, to Waterloo Dock. Each one had a Good Depot at the end. The idea was to get goods in and out of the docks ASAP. This was space age technology at the time - 1830s.
Both closed 1971/72. One of the last, if not the last, passenger trains to use the Waterloo Tunnel was taking troops to the Pier Head to quell the trouble in Northern Ireland.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb....lpool_1920.htm
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb....pool_1836.html
The Lime Street cutting were originally tunnels, however they were cut out at various points for safety reasons - steam engines.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
The original Waterloo and Wapping tunnels had steam engines at Edge Hill that pulled the wagons by cable, so safety inside the tunnels was not such a problem. Later, steam locos became more powerful and were able to climb the incline form the docks. With it being goods the safety aspect was not a real consideration as with passenger Lime St.
At the time these tunnels were very long indeed, and still are. London had nothing like them.
The cuttings at Lime St can be built over reclaiming land, that is for sure, and ideally should be. Heavy beams can be stretched across the cuttings and buildings built upon the beams. The cuttings are dangerous with vandals throwing heavy objects on the trains and onto the lines. They are also an eyesore with large ugly heavy walls around them. One idea was to make the deep cutting a double decker track.
So... I wonder when the Byrom street cutting was made then and why? If it was only for passenger safety, is it because passengers once used that line and if so, was a station, or just a staff access made at Hodson street. I've only ever known it as a goods line from the docks but if indeed it was extended to the Riverside Station then maybe...?
Yes, questions Ged. The cutting/station could have been added later. But Byron St was a major highly populated area in the 1800s, so it may have been a station from the outset. A rail workers stop? Why there?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
Very interesting thank you.
So where does the line go that i see from Seaforth Docks please and is it the same line that goes into a Tunnel at near Boolte Oriel Rd at a Lower Level than the Northern Line.
:PDT10
I know nothing about railways, but think I've missed something in these threads.
Has somebody actually said there was a station at Hodson Street?
If the Waterloo Tunnel was originally the Victoria Tunnel, then it opened in 1849.
I've checked all the following maps, and while the cutting is shown on all of them, on none is there a station shown:
c1860; 1863; 1865; 1873; 1881; 1888; 1892; 1897; 1906; 1924.
Only according to Oritelad Philip who also says so on his site but I can find no facts relating to it?
Day Ago
oritelad
www.oldliverpoolrailways.
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its good to see more discussions about this lost waterloo tunnel station my site www.oldliverpoolrailways.tk has a page on it please feel free to look its still under construction i still have loads to add to each page but hodson station did exsist iam 100% certain it was very hidden as the area as we know it today is very open but before the area was redevloped that cutting was quite hidden when fontenoy garderns are around the station was accsesed by stairs they started where the electricity orange brick hut is now and down onto the platforms where a woodern station hut was also of course this station was mostly used by workers and trains did not stop here much and it didnt last long as a station but lets not forget it as it was a station and will soon be again thanks to merseyrail as for the other stations on the waterloo tunnel line it had hodson station, edge hill, riverside, waterloo goods and great howard street as great howard street station as used as a goods yard after exchange station opened i have photos somewhere traces of great howard street station, waterloo goods station, hodson station and riverside station are still there today
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www.oldliverpoolrailways.tk