Marshall Cavendish 1990 issue of The Wallace Case in their series:
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Marshall Cavendish 1990 issue of The Wallace Case in their series:
Thanks, Mark. I am curious about your Avatar. Is that, as I assume, Regent Street, London, behind you?
Chris
Does anyone know anyone who attended Tom Slemen's 2001 talk about this case "to 1500 people" at St. George's Hall ?
Hi Chris
Very observant! Yes it is me in Piccadilly Circus with Regent Street behind!
John Rowland 1st edition of his 1949 study.
Twyford Street/Richmond Park alleyway. On the evening of the 20th January 1931 James Allison Wildman stated that he was halfway through this entry when he glanced up at the Holy Trinity Church clock and noticed that the time was 6.35pm.
Holy Trinity Church (from Richmond Park)
Great Mark. Keep em coming.
Found on the corner of Rochester (now Lower Breck) Road and Breck Road. This was the original phone box (taken in the early 1930's).
William Herbert Wallace
I work in a day centre in Anfield, teaching life skills to people with learning difficulties. About two years ago we decided to look into the Wallace case. One of our service users lives in Wolverton Street and so we had access to the entry. I will try and dig out the photos we took, we also visited Parkes garage, which is still owned by the family, they was very helpful. I always thought Wallace was innocent until i read the transcript of the trial, his alibi of not knowing the area (Menlove gardens), was blown away by his statement in court that he used to get violin lessons from someone in the Pru, who lived on Green Lane 10 second walk away from Menlove gardens. A n area he said he had never visited.
Wallace never said he didn't know the area of Menlove Avenue. At the chess club, when notified of Menlove Gardens East Wallace asked "Is it near Menlove Avenue?" In his statement he claimed he realised he knew he was on Green Lane only when he reached it. And he also stated that he never mentioned his calling at Crewe's home at first because he was asked who he had spoken to. (Wallace didn't get an answer as Crewe was at the cinema on the evening of the 20th). Yes, he visited the home of Joseph Crewe (his super) on five occassions over two years before, but this does not mean he actually knew the area. Let's not forget that Samuel Beattie (the chess club captain) and Edgar Bertram Deyes (another chess club member) both lived in the Menlove area and neither of these men knew whether or not there was a Menlove Gardens East. So it is unfair to suggest Wallace would have known.
I've read the James Murphy account which is anti WHW in the end, yet it still had me thinking he was innocent, perhaps because i'd heard the Radio City story regarding Parry.
Hi allQuote:
Originally Posted by Mark R
It would be natural enough to ask whether Menlove Gardens East was near Menlove Avenue if you didn't know the area well. Menlove Avenue is a major thoroughfare in Liverpool so a person could have heard of it without being conversant with the area.
Chris
And since there is a North, South and West, it would be only natural to assume there could be an East too.
Correct. I have always thought that much has been made that because WHW didn't consult a directory this points to his guilt. This is all very well with hindsight. Let's say for argument, that there would have been a Qualtrough and a Menlove Gardens East, we wouldn't be having a debate over it! I know James Murphy makes a lot of it in his book, especially with reference to Jonathan Goodman's mentioning of a similar circumstance he had himself in London. Murphy states that Goodman's reference wasn't the same and that a street he was looking for did actually exist. But Goodman also relates another story where he substituted a street name for a non-existent address and then called a friend up (unbeknownst). Yes, the acquaintance of Goodman went to the address (without consulting a directory) and spent over half an hour looking for the non-existent address...
Also, as hard as it might be to believe that WHW would have consulted a street directory back home, nobody did either in the chess club the night before (where there were witnesses galore) so it's feasable.
Yes, that's a great point Ged. I have always thought that. If WHW was the killer, he was taking a very big risk at the chess club. For all he knew anyone could have mentioned looking it up (in fact, Beattie did say "you'll have to look it up"). For all Wallace knew, there could have even been a directory at the chess club.
Hi All I am not saying Parry did the murder but just want some information from someone with local knowledge
How long would it take to drive from the famous telephone kiosk which I believe was on Priory Road to Missouri Road?
This is taken from the book by James Murphy:
Lilly Lloydd's mother stated that Parry arrived at her home 7, Missouri Road at 7-15pm precisely the time the telephone call was made to the chess club.
Thank You in anticipation:)
Missouri rd is quite near. You could drive to it very quickly, especially in those days when there was little traffic and the sides streets had no driving restrictions like they do now. ie; one way streets or no entry signs, so you'd be able to drive straight to any place on a more direct route.
In the 1930s there were fewer traffic lights to slow you down.
Assuming that the route to Missouri rd was taken via Townsend lane and turning right into Maiden lane, I'm assuming that there must have been less traffic lights at that time .. (there are 4 sets of lights now which have been added in recent years). I just edited this to say that from the 'triangle' where the phone box was located, there are currently 5 sets of lights including 3 more recent pelican crossings and a fairly new set of lights before the turning onto Maiden lane.
At a rough guess it would take about 4 mins ! Depending of course how fast or slow you drive.
Yes, I would have said about 5 minutes travelling time.
Thank You Lindy & Mark
So using the same criteria applied to Wallace himself by those who think he was guilty by that I mean being a little flexible with times. Parry could possibly have made the call and arrived at 7 Missouri Road quite soon after. Lilly Lloyd's mother may have been a few minutes out when she said he arrived at 7-15pm
Just a thought:)
And a reasonable thought Steve. How's the band coming along? :unibrow:
Bit of a JOKER eh Ged ..:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
Hee hee - there you are...
I know I hear it all the time. Personally I never liked them.
However I do have a brother called Glenn and another brother called Mick (anyone into greyhounds?)
Good mucker.
Back on subject then Steve. I take it, like me you believe WHW was innocent. Parry comes across as a bit of a lad, had been in trouble before, even with the Pru, WHW had grassed him up, a score to settle, an unreliable alibi that was revoked later on, the bloodied glove if we believe Parkes etc....
Hi Ged I am about 80% in favour of William Wallace being innocent.
After reading James Murphys' book I have been of the opinion that Parry did not do it but from his alibi on the Monday night for the telephone call it is possible he could have made that call.
However he does seem to have a perfect alibi for the Tuesday night but I am going to study this alibi a little more closely after all we do not know the time of death and thanks to McFall who bungled his initial inspection by relying on rigor for the time of death we don't even have a reliable time frame.
Yes, I think it is quite possible for Lily Lloyd's mother to have been inaccurate with the time on the Monday night. I'm not sure about Parry though...Like you say Steve, he seems to have a cast iron alibi for the evening of the murder from 5.30 up till about 8.30. I know I have stated this before that alibis can be fabricated, but I'm just not sure...I do myself tend to lean towards Wallace's innocence. Like you say, we don't know exactly when the killing was committed.
There is an Echo supplement in newsagents/vendors called MURDER MOST FOUL. I bought it today. It costs £1.50 and has several notorious local murder cases. The Maybrick Case is covered, as is The Cameo Murder. The Wallace Murder is the centrespread.
Hi Mark
Could you do me a favor and pick up a copy of the Echo supplement for me and I will pay you when I see you at the Maybrick event next month?
Chris
Sure Chris,
Doesn't matter about payment.
Mark
Cheers mark. I'll get it though I suppose nothing new as emerged and it's all just a reprint of what we already know?
Yeah. Nothing new but worth a read.
I've got a spare copy if Chris or anyone else wants it. Very poor bit of cobbled together, half-inched drivel, IMO.
Hi Mark
It would seem Parry has a cast iron alibi and although alibis can be fabricated this one seems to involve too many people.
Hi All
Page 92 of James Murphys' book states that in 1933 Parry refuted the claims that he was the murderer in a newspaper called Empire News.
Has anyone ever seen this article?
Hi SteveQuote:
Originally Posted by steve miller
Several witnesses claimed George Kelly was in the Beehive Pub prior to the Cameo Murders, which in fact turned out to be totally untrue. Although I have to admit, I am not convinced that Parry committed Julia's murder.
Best
Mark
A few things have always struck me as odd. First, you get the feeling that an insurance agent - particularly one who plays chess for fun - is not the sort of person to set out on a business engagement without first making reference to something as simple as a street directory. It just doesn't seem plausible. Secondly, Wallace seems to have gone to an awful of of trouble to make sure he was seen by reliable (non-passer-by witnesses) in a locality far from his home, at the time his wife was being murdered. Suspicious behaviour or what? Lastly, at a time when home telephones and directories were at a premium (we didn't get ours until 1974!), how did 'Qualtrough' not only know Wallace's line of business, but also his attendance routine at the chess club, the time he'd be there, and the number to call him on?
Let's send DI Sam Tyler back there pronto, to sort this one out.
I think it is reasonable to assume that Wallace could have thought the address existed without consulting a directory - hindsight is a marvellous thing! He did actually ask passers by in the Menlove area. First, he asked a woman coming out of a house on Menlove Gardens North and, secondly, a stranger stood at a shelter on Green Lane/Menlove Avenue junction (in fact, two other people who encountered Wallace on the evening in question didn't recognize him in a line-up).
Wallace's occupation would surely have been well known in the Anfield/Clubmoor area; he did after all make over 560 calls a week. The chess fixtures were listed on the notice board at the chess club - anyone visiting the club could have seen when Wallace was scheduled to play. Admittedly, this doesn't mean WHW would definitely be at the club on the said evening.
The phone number wouldn't have been a problem - the number was marked on the phone booth at the club.
If he did know his attendance routine at the club, he got it wrong, he wasn't there when he rang.