The 'triangle' .. a shadow of it's former self !!Quote:
Originally Posted by lindylou
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The 'triangle' .. a shadow of it's former self !!Quote:
Originally Posted by lindylou
absolutely brilliant thread everyone!
Lindy...you're info about growing up in that street was amazing! so interesting!
just found this...
http://www.geocities.com/tom_slemen/wallace.html
Thanks for the link. That old photo in there of 'our' street .. I've seen in books and web-sites. There's a kid playing in the distance and I wonder if it could have been me !! ha,ha. You never know !
The phonebox where Wallace made the call was by the 'triangle' (previous pic I posted). The phonebox used to be over by the side where the bus stop is - if you look close you'll see a bus shelter. The phonebox was originally more over towards the right. There was always a call box on that site and was only removed in recent years.
Wolverton st has always been a nice quiet road and has remained that way.
It's tucked away from any main roads, and as it is a cul-de-sac ( although at one time there used to be a small unpaved, unlit passage way at the bottom end leading off into Richmond Park ) only residents pass through it. There is very little passing traffic and no surrounding shops etc, therefore it's a peaceful little street.
Wish I still lived there. I live somewhere totally the opposite now - a main rd, hectic and noisy - no peace !! :sad:
Yes, security gates have now put paid to entering the street from the cul de sac end and the entryways.
There was also a docu-drama shown in October 1975 called Who Killed Julia Wallace? I'll never forget seeing it! I was 9 at the time. My mother told me that it happened 'just up the road' from our house. We watched the programme and visited 29 Wolverton Street the very next night. Since then I have been hooked! It was a very good drama. They used the actual locations in Anfield and the cast were unknown.Quote:
Originally Posted by MissInformed
grrrrrr im jealous! would love to see it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark R
There was also the one made for t.v. featuring Geoffrey Hughes alias Corries Eddie Yates as a copper - it was in the late 90s I think. Carrie, get yourself the James Murphy book outta the book clearance centre, mind you it was about 2 years ago I got mine from there, very atmospheric though I don't agree with his outcome.
I emailed ITV last year to get them to reshow that thing. Never got a reply. Maybe a few of us should make a concerted effort to get them to air it again. Alternatively, I think their Archives department will happily provide a VHS/DVD of it for about £200 !!!Quote:
Originally Posted by MissInformed
AP
The back entry of Wolverton st. Couldn't get in to take a closer shot as it is alleygated. I'll take one of the street next time I'm passing.
The Wallace house is on the right of the photo where the furthest bin is.
There is actually another narrow alley which cuts across the middle ( see in 2nd attachment.)
These alley gates are very restricting when it comes to taking photies. :rolleyes:
Wolverton st, how it looks today.
1st view looking up the street from Richmond Park.
2nd view looks down from the cul-de-sac end.
Great pics, Lindy. Thanks! I was wondering about your mention of the back entries now being "alleygated." Is this now a general thing in Liverpool and other British cities? I can remember playing in the "jiggers" when I was a little boy -- we lived on Bromley Avenue near Greenbank Park for a while, and that's the specific location I remember from that time -- and later sneaking down a back entry from a girlfriend's in the Kensington area when I was a teenager. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by lindylou
Chris
Yes, all the alleyways are gated in L'pool Not sure about elsewhere.
The trouble is that you can't take short cuts now. You have to go all around the world to get from A to B. :rolleyes: :)
A small price to pay though because it also means that housebreakers and muggers also can't take the shortcuts now nor use the cover of darkness or off street means to partake in their dusk activities and as such, burglaries have now decreased. There's also no bin bag dumping. It's a pain in the bladder for us chaps who are caught short though lol.
There are a few alleys though that arent gated due to objections. In effect what the council did was illegal and if somebody objected, they couldnt go ahead. Its only recent legislation that has allowed for compulsory gating if the council and police can show its necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
Yes - that was The Man from the Pru. I believe it was made in 1989. The book clearance don't have any more copies as of James Murphy's book as far as I'm aware. I agree with you though Ged - it is a great book, but I don't agree with Murphy's verdict.
Re: Who Killed Julia Wallace
I actually wrote to Yorkshire TV (it was actually made by them) but did not recieve anything of note. Yes, I also wrote to the TV archive and the cost would come to over £250. I'm sure the programme was aired again in the early 80's.
Just remembered another Wallace documentary aired. Does anyone remember Bloody Murder? It was hosted by Corrie's Lee Boardman and appeared in 2004. There were some good episodes in the series, including The Wallace and Maybrick Cases. The Wallace episode centred around the probable outcome that it was RG Parry who committed the offence. I'm not really convinced of Parry's guilt though...
If the bloodied glove in the car is to be believed then I'd have to go with the RGP option as there could be no other explaination that he was in on it somewhere (even if he'd lent his car out)
I remember John McArdle (ex Brookside) doing a murder series which included a murder down by Pall Mall and a body being pushed in a wheelbarrow in a sack and being dumped in the canal was mentioned but can't remember that other one.
I agree that Parry shouldn't be removed from the equation - I know he had an alibi for the evening of the killing, and also the time of the phone call the night before, but these could be fabricated. I'm just not convinced that it was him though. He was interviewed at Tuebrook Police Station and was discovered to not have any blood on him - (or is this part of the conspiracy?). John Parkes seemed so adamant that Parry was guilty of something...
Do you give any credence to Tom Slemen's John Johnstone theory?
I didn't at first - but I think on the possibilities in this case, that they could have committed the crime. I have never been 100% sure of the guilt of WHW, especially the complete lack of bloodstaining on his person (and I must say that James Murphy's theory didn't convince me that Wallace took a bath either).There are lots of points that I would address though to Tom Slemen, as I am not too convinced of his theory...
JSJ was interviewed by PC Fred Williams at the scene wasn't he, in fact both WHW and JSJ and Tom Slemen seems to think that because PC FW later said he didn't think WHW was guilty, that it summises that he thought JSJ was, but it seems that the police thought very quickly that they had their man and all other possibilities just went out of the window. Do you think JSJ could have made the Qualthrough phone call to get WHW out of the way and would he use his best friends name in the plan? (and has it ever been verified that the Qualthrough living in Anfield was indeed JSJ's best mate)
I think it is wrong too to call it Tom Slemens theory as I did earlier as I believe it has been mooted before.
There was a John Qualtrough living in Anfield at that time - whether he was a friend of John Johnston or not, I'm not sure we'll ever know...As for the phone call - would JSJ use a name that could throw suspicion on him? Slemen seems to think so...of course, the idea is that JSJ didn't intend to kill JW, but just to retrieve something that belonged to him in the Wallace household. You're right of course, that the 'Johnston' theory had already been put forward before Tom Slemen. It might be argued though, that because Williams didn't believe Wallace had done it, he naturally believed that it was Johnston. I would like to know a bit more about Marsden (the other co-worker of the Pru that was accused by WHW of being short in his collections). If my research is right, he lived in Knoclaid Road, where, if the police interviews are anything to go by, a Mrs. Olivia Brine lived. Mrs. Brine gave the police a statement that Parry was at her house sometime during the evening of the 20th January. Hmm, both Parry & Marsden in the same street on the night of the killing...
Isn't Knoclaid rd where a bobby saw WHW looking distressed too - seems to play a large part in it?
Was anything found in the house belonging to JSJ and did WHW say he had anything belonging to SJS or is this just a theory. If he did go in to collect something legit, do you mean something then happened that led to her death that was not pre-planned?
what about the blood found in the lavatory pan?
I have a Telegraph Homes Article from a few years ago somewhere which I could possibly scan if it can survive the trip back home to Wirral! Will fish it out for yer.
Yes - Knoclaid Road is a continuation of Maiden Lane (where PC Rothwell saw Wallace). Just what it was that was in WHW's house belonging JSJ is a mystery. Tom Slemen suggested this (whether it has been suggested before elsewhere, I am not sure) but Slemen told me that he wasn't prepared to divulge it until he publishes his book on the case. If I am correct in Tom Slemen's piece for the Merseymart in 2001, he claimed that Julia saw JSJ in the front parlour and this left JSJ with no option but to kill her. It was out - Julia realised then that JSJ was the Anfield Housebreaker.
Re: blood on lavatory pan
Dr Coope and Dr Dible carried out over 100 tests concerning the blood clot, and the form/shape corresponded to a blood clot that would have to have been at least an hour old (when deposited). The amount of people who entered the bathroom post-murder was substantial - it could have been any of the police, MacFall, or even Wallace himself (unless of course, we assume it was there even BEFORE the murder occured and was nothing to do with the crime).
A funny thing concerning the blood clot - one source stated that when asked whether the police had taken a photograph of it on the water closet DS Moore stated "No" - yet there is a photograph of it in different publications.
[QUOTE=Mark R;41920].
A funny thing concerning the blood clot - one source stated that when asked whether the police had taken a photograph of it on the water closet DS Moore stated "No" - yet there is a photograph of it in different publications.[/QUOTE]
What publications? Would like to see a photo....miss morbid I am!:)
hmm, the theory that Julia realised JSJ was the Anfield housebreaker - that is a good theory and could well be right. It's a good possibility :nod:
Yes a theory because neither JW or SJS ever mentioned it of course for obvious reasons.
[/Quote]
A funny thing concerning the blood clot - one source stated that when asked whether the police had taken a photograph of it on the water closet DS Moore stated "No" - yet there is a photograph of it in different publications.[/QUOTE]
What publications? Would like to see a photo....miss morbid I am!:)[/QUOTE]
I'll try and get a scan of it up on the site. I know it appeared in Murder Case Book 25 (The Wallace Case) in 1990. I think I have a photo of it somewhere.
Mark
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge
This was a great link given by Chris earlier in the thread - just in case you missed it with some fantastic photos by MarkR.
Photo of the lavatory pan with blood spot (circled).
I spy a bit of the previous nights echo there as well, they weren't that 'posh' then :unibrow:
Yeah, you're right - on the police photographs of the bathroom ripped up pieces of the 'echo' can be seen hanging on the wall...
Ugh - what were they stuck up there with - not previously used specimens I hope.
Great pics you've got though.
Hah! No. They're on a holder or string.
My uncle, the Liverpool comedian Billy Matchett, used to tell a joke about a newspaper boy who shouted out "Echo pooh!" When asked why he shouted that he said it was because he was wearing his old man's kecks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark R
Chris
I remember the little old bloke in Byrom Street who used sell the echoes at the traffic lights going down the queue when they were on red. He used to yell 'Last city echo' but now i'm thinking that I may have misheard it.
Hi Sloyne: Here are three UK copies listed as for sale NOW between £7.99-15.00! Original RRP was £8.99. Air mail is quite reasonable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloyne
http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/Se...&x=42&sortby=3
You will have to register, then contact the bookseller to see if still available. I can recommend buying through this site. Good Luck! It really is an excellent read.
Jon Goodman's 1969 seminal classic: