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Hi PhilQuote:
Originally Posted by PhilipG
Fair enough. It would seem to me though that it was something to do with the city government with having a Liver Bird on it, do you agree? I do agree that most of the boundary markers just seem to have letters on them for the areas whose limits they are marking.
Chris
Or a Liverpool firm.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge
The classic example, of course, is the Royal Liver Insurance.
Despite what the council would have you believe with their new district signs, there's no defined boundary for Mossley Hill. The nearest attempt are the Church of England parish boundaries for SS Matthew and James, Mossley Hill and St Barnabas, Mossley Hill.
However Rose Lane, Mossley Hill has two beautiful boundary markers. One near the church, defining the boundary between Garston and Wavertree. The other defining the boundary between Allerton and Wavertree. Both boundaries ran down the middle of Rose Lane.
The W|G stone is located against the wall near the SS Matthew and James Vicarage and the A|W stone is built into the stone wall about 100 yds along towards Mather Ave from Pitville Rd. Photos attached. The Allerton wavertree bounadry continues Rose lane and then along Green Lane where another boundary marker exists to confirm this.
The net result of all this of course is that SS Matthew and James Church is in Garston Township. Also of course all the shops etc on Allerton Rd are in Wavertree Township and not the Allerton so beloved of estate agents
great pics
I agree. Wonderful photographs, Taffy. Thanks for taking them and also for giving us that information on the markers' locations.
Chris
great to see these little pieces of history still dotted around our city. I think it's what makes it so special
This is the usual bisected natural stone with large initials. I can see a large 'G' on one side, but unfortunately the other side is worn...can someone confirm it was a 'W'.
This is on the modern-day boundary of L17/L18.
This is located on Victoria Road near the junction with Carnatic Road, which can be seen in the distance in the second pic.
Thanks for this one Marky, another stone I didn't know about. I cannot make out a W but yes the boundary stone was the Garston/Wavertree boundary marker. It's shown on my 1908 large scale map from Alan and Godfrey. The boundary stone was close to two others marking the point where the townships of Toxteth Park, Garston and Wavertree met. I don't know if the others still exist though as the area has been subject to re-developmentQuote:
Originally Posted by marky
T.T.P. (Township of Toxteth Park)
This is located on North Mossley Hill Road, near Ibbotsons Lane (the car in the second pic is parked in Ibbotsons Lane...at this end it is a Public Footpath and leads to the Iron Bridge at Sefton Park).
Everything North of the stone is in Toxteth Park...there isn't any indication of the area South of the stone...Wavertree ?
I'll definately have to send these pics to Toxteth.net as evidence of the Toxteth boundary are very rare.
Wavertree/Garston Stone and on Rose Lane? Huh?
Super photographs, Marky! Thanks once again. I totally agree that you should send these pics to Toxteth.net. Good work. I also agree with Taffy that all such markers should be listed.Quote:
Originally Posted by marky
Chris
My uncle was over from Ireland and we were cutting through by St. Mary's graveyard when he noticed a stone and said ''Jesus, 210, this guy was old''
I asked him what the name said on the stone, he brushed some undergrowth one side and said ''Miles from London''.
Wavertree Playground markers:
Toxteth.net has more info on these including a pic of the missing W and T.P. stones
http://www.toxteth.net/places/liverp...y/boundary.htm
Today there is a Railway Boundary Post in the area where the Stone Markers where. The remains of an old wooden fence can still be seen in places along the line of the modern railings. The Stones where against the old wooden fence. Nearby is a mystery stone block...it could be nothing, but there were a couple of other markers on early maps. The area of interest is the Smithdown Road/Grant Avenue section.
This was between the Queens cinema and the Salvation Army on Walton Road.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/30/36...352e7814_o.jpg
1986 photos.
The car park is the site of the cinema
The boundary stone was on the wall on the other side of the poster.
The wall was all that remained of the cinema.
A McDonalds has replaced both buildings.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/80/22...195dbd07_b.jpg
That's really unusual, Philip. Are you saying then that because of the redevelopment at the site, the stone has been lost? :(
Chris
All these stone markers should be listed...City 800 years old/Capital of Culture celebrations and these stones are just left to disappear.
Looking at the Toxeth Park one at N. Mossley Hill Rd. it is the only one posted that is not symmetrical...as if it has been cut in half, or should be butting against another stone? (just speculation)...the curve just looks suspicious.
Here's the marker between the Otterspool Promenade/Marine Esplanade (the railings are different either side of this brick marker). I fully expect people, in years to come, will use this as proof that Otterspool stretches as far as this point...which it does not...this point is still very much Dingle.
Interesting also for it mentions the Cast Iron Shore.
Here's the Much Woolton/Little Woolton Boundary Stone in Church Road, Woolton.
The location pic is taken from Church Road, looking towards Reservoir Road.
I suppose it has been lost.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge
Unless it has been given pride of place in McDonalds. :)
At the time I wondered if I was the only person who had ever taken a photo of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marky
Great to see. Thanks, Marky!
Chris
Harrington Dock Stone...marks Eastern Terminal Point:
THIS STONE ERECTED IN
THE YEAR 1885 IS PLACED ON
THE SITE OF THE SOUTHERN BASIN
OF HARRINGTON DOCK TO MARK
THE EASTERN TERMINAL POINT
OF THE IMAGINARY LINE REFERRED
TO IN SECTION 103 OF THE MERSEY
DOCK ACTS CONSOLIDATION
ACT 1858
Very interesting! Thanks again, Marky!Quote:
Originally Posted by marky
Chris
Garston/Speke Boundary Stone?
Banks Road/Speke Road (over the road from the old fire-station, which has now been converted to flats), have a look on the grass verge...near to the sign for 'Speke'
I don't know for certain, but it is in the right place to be a boundary marker (I'd have to see some reference to it on a map, or have it confirmed by someone who knows the area better).
Smithdown Road...I think this is another Railway Boundary Post, but it has no markings at all. The other one (just around the corner) is marked as a Boundary Post, but is off the pathway and so is in good condition. I suspect this one is worn away because of pedestrians.
This metal plate is shown bottom-right on the second picture (together with a quirk...all colours of one set of traffic lights are still lit)
Hi TaffyQuote:
Originally Posted by taffy
You could be right. My first reaction was that it was the remains of a gatepost or maybe a hitching post but is that some lettering on top of it?
Chris
Riversdale Road. If anyone's got an old map, then this might appear. It has all the correct features of a boundary stone, but doesn't have any markings.
Nice find Marky. I cannot see a Boundary Stone marked on Riversdale Rd on the 1905 OS map. There are two bench marks shown. Could this post have held a metal bench mark plate. Where precisely is the stone you found?Quote:
Originally Posted by marky
It's a shame if it isn't as it looks similar to some others (natural stone, gravestone shape). I did wonder what the strange impression was on the front, as if it held something or it was butted up against something.
As you head down from Aigburth Road it is about half-way down on the left (a little bit before you hit the present-day footpath on the left)
a Wavertree township marker on Binns Road
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...DSCF0919-2.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...a/DSCF0920.jpg
My nan used to live in the house next door to the builders merchants on Wavertree High Street, now my mind may be playing tricks with me (it was a good 15-20 years or so ago) but I'm fairly certain there is a boundary stone marker in the wall the separates the house garden to that of Wayne/Village builders merchants.
As I said, could be mistaken though as I was a kid at the time I just seem to remember being told about it.
Spotted this one on Allerton Rd, Allerton. Must have passed this a 1000 times and not seen it before. It looks like some sort of crown boundary marker possibly related to the Allerton Police Station Boundary.
Here's another one of those metal plates...Greenhill Road/Brodie Avenue (at the bottom of the railway bridge). This looks to be identical...a GR Crown and Feet and Inches measurements. I don't know what they mark, but they are rare.
Very interesting, Taffy and Marky. I am almost tempted to think that the style of the crown and the type of lettering might date back to George III but that hardly seems possible, so I suppose it must be George V or VI.
Chris
The G R does indeed refer to George V as he wouldn't have been confused with the previous King George who died in 1830. His son George had to use the VI after his name though to avoid confusion with his father.
The 'G R Ft in' plates above are ordinance survey benchmarks and the benchmark symbol http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/wwshack/g.../benchmark.gif will be hidden below pavement level and should look like this one - http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...G4716Small.jpg
The groove above the arrow is to insert the measuring tool and can be seen carved into stone also as we have seen on the Thingwall/Knotty Ash sandstone marker post.
Great information. Thank you so much, Mark. :PDT11
Chris
In Castle Street, in the northbound lane about 100 yards south of the Town Hall. . .
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/190/5...f7e577d9f5.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/216/5...a0bd12766b.jpg
Spotted on Smithdown Rd, L7 against the Toxteth Park Cemetery wall. It says on the base "Erected 1866". What is it? Sited opposite block between Cranbourne Rd and Salsbury Rd
Same as this, Taffy, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by taffy
http://www.toxteth.net/places/liverp...y%20marker.htm
Any reason to think it is not a boundary marker for Toxteth Park?
Chris
Paul Christian of toxteth.net sometimes just writes his own assumptions without checking the facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge
I'm not sure about the Lower Brook, but the OS map shows that the boundary crosses the road at that exact spot, and continues towards town down that pavement as opposed to the other side of the road.
My assumption is that it marks the boundary between the other two districts which he's marked in red.
With him writing 'stone' he's obliterated what reads on my map: "Union Divn. of Parly. Boro. & Ward Bdy." (Union [Division?] of Parliamentary, Borough and Ward Boundary).
The key word here is Union, because if you follow the Boundary north to Cadogan Street you can see that the word 'Union' is missing.
http://www.toxteth.net/maps/liverpool/lpool1g.htm
Yes I did think it was a boundary marker but with the comments on OS trig points, I began to wonder. The L7 post code boundary along this section of Smithdown Rd follows the old West Derby/ Toxteth boundary up to the appropriately named Boundary Pub at the junction of Lodge Lane and Smithdown Rd. Most of the L7 terraced houses off Smithdown Rd are due to demolition. Sad really as many of these seem to be in good condition but have fallen foul of the the "New Heartlands" Government demolition policy.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge
Does 'Boundary Lane' off West Derby Road have anything to do with boundary markers ? (A-Z page 46...4A)
Just done a search and can find no mention of it.
Phredd