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So 10 errors :disgust:
He should team up with Tom Slemen's detective side-kick, Mr Andrews. :unibrow::ninja:
It's no good having a great interest, demeaner, voice and looks for the part, as no doubt Mr Burke has, if he's going to lead new readers up the garden path.Well done for pointing them out Mark.
Thanks Ged. As I said earlier, I'm not having a go at him but it is annoying to see those errors. Like you say, misinforming readers on it.
Thanks for posting the errors - I'd probably not have realised. I do love Vincent Burke though, I think he's brilliant when telling stories.
Menlove Gardens - the "triangular affair"
At the junction of Menlove Gardens West and Menlove Gardens North, Wallace turned right into Menlove Gardens North...
http://www.titanictown.plus.com/wallace/mgn2.jpg
He asked a woman coming out of a house on the left where Menlove Gardens East was... She directed him back to the junction, and said it might be a continuation of Menlove Gardens West...
http://www.titanictown.plus.com/wallace/mgn1.jpg
Wallace continued up Menlove Gardens West, but found that it stopped at Dudlow Lane. There he met Sydney Green, who told him there was no Menlove Gardens East. Wallace said he would ask at 25 Menlove Gardens West, and doubled back the way he had come...
http://www.titanictown.plus.com/wallace/mgn2.jpg
crossing the junction with Menlove Gardens North again, looking towards Menlove Gardens South [Menlove Gardens West to the right of the picture]...
http://www.titanictown.plus.com/wallace/mgn3.jpg
25 Menlove Gardens West, where Wallace rang the bell. Mrs. Katie Mather told him she hadn't heard of Menlove Gardens East or Qualtrough...
http://www.titanictown.plus.com/wallace/25mgw1.jpg
Wallace continued back down Menlove Gardens West and turned left into Menlove Gardens South. He discovered that all the houses were even-numbered...
http://www.titanictown.plus.com/wallace/mgs1.jpg
looking back from Menlove Gardens South towards Menlove Gardens West (left) and Menlove Gardens North (right)...
http://www.titanictown.plus.com/wallace/mgw3.jpg
25 Menlove Gardens West, viewed (zoom) from Menlove Gardens South...
http://www.titanictown.plus.com/wallace/mgw2.jpg
Wallace continued along Menlove Gardens South until it joined up again with Menlove Gardens North. He then continued along Menlove Gardens North and found himself back on Menlove Avenue, at the junction with Green Lane....
http://www.titanictown.plus.com/wallace/mgs2.jpg
So this is where Julia Wallace devotees came after the disastrous crash, and obliteration of the superb Casebook discussion boards!!
Hi Mark R! (Granger here).
I asked this question on Casebook. Has anyone seen any of the police photographs of the upstairs bedrooms at No 29? I have seen the pictures of the two downstairs rooms, and the bathroom, but never the bedrooms, and there is reference of these pix been taken (forgot the name of the police photographer).
I have always felt that these pictures could now yield some valuable clues.
I have never been able to ascertain whether or not the Wallace's shared the same bedroom.
Just found this discussion board, after being an avid contributor to the Casebook boards, particulary the Julia Wallace thread. Sadly the bulk of this was lost when the web site crashed . Hi Mark R, Granger here!
Have asked this question before on other discusion boards. Has anyone seen the police photographs of the three bedrooms at No 29. I know these to have been taken, but all I have ever seen is the ground floor rooms and bathroom. I am positive, after 75+ years they could offer up some valuable clues.
Did the Wallace's share the same Bedroom? I know the second Bedroom was used as a laboratory by Wallace. What was the third Bedroom used for?
Hi Granger
I have all the photos that were taken by photographer Harry Cooke. There were none taken upstairs (with the exception of the two in the bathroom). The bedrooms (for some apparent reason) were not photographed. The upstairs back room was where Wallace conducted his scientific work. It is believed the Wallace's slept in the middle bedroom (although of course, we only have Wallace's word for this). The front room upstairs was also a bedroom. That was the room with the hats (and other items) thrown onto the bed. They could have slept in different rooms - we'll never know for sure...
Found this interview with Kevin Firth, former owner of 29 Wolverton Street...
starts at 13 minutes into the tape...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/saturday...e_20080531.ram
Thanks for that RodCrosby. Wonder who bought it?
Wallace 1911 census
1911 Census Household Transcript
Name: Relationship to head: Marital Status: Years married: Sex: Age in 1911: Occupation: Where born:
WALLACE, BENJAMIN HEAD MARRIED M 72 RETIRED INSURANCE AGENT CUMBERLAND ASLTON
WALLACE, MARGERY WIFE MARRIED 33 F 60 LANCASHIRE CORRISTON
WALLACE, WILLIAM HEBERT SON SINGLE M 32 LIBERAL REGISTRATION AGENT CUMBERLAND ENGLAND MILLOM
WALLACE, JESSIE DAUGHTER SINGLE F 28 CUMBERLAND MILLOM
CRANAGE, SORBLE BOARDER SINGLE F 22 DRESSMAKER DERBYSHIRE HORRINGLOW
LINTOTT, WALTER LUCIUS BOARDER SINGLE M 25 OUTFITTER GENERAL DERBYSHIRE BURTON
JACKSON, AMY MARION BOARDER SINGLE F 29 DRESSMAKER CUMBERLAND DRIGG
CORLETT, HARRIET BOARDER SINGLE F 20 DRESSMAKER LANCASHIRE DALTON IN F
(RG14PN25910 RG78PN1500 RD489 SD2 ED5 SN189)
Address 9 BELMONT RD HARROGATE County Yorkshire West Riding
District Knaresborough Subdistrict Harrogate
Enumeration District 5 Parish Harrogate
Steve Binns giving a talk on the Wallace case, St. George's Hall, 5/2/2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqsTlkB31EE
29 Wolverton Street on Google StreetView
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/mpl?la...18413320274304
follow in Wallace's footsteps. :eek:
I don't recall ever seeing a reference to Richard Gordon Parry's home address at the time of the murder, although most reports refer to it being in the proximity of the Wallace's own home. Anyone have any idea?
hi i am new to this forum but have been facinated with the wallace murder case for years. Was reading a book i have by i think Rodney Castledon called infamous murders where he talks about the wallace case. He mentions that when she was killed julia wallce was not wearing "normal ladies underwear" which he attributed to a comment made by gordon parry as the wallaces' being sexually odd has anyone else ever come across anything like this?
Seems she was wearing a nappy/incontinence type garment.
I seem to remember reading somewhere that Parry lived with his parents in Derwent Road. His father was pretty well placed in the Corporation Treasury and that led to some speculation that Masonic influence was used to get the police to stop questioning him.
You're right Ged, Julia was wearing an incontinence pad/nappy type garment.
Parry actually lived with his parents in Woburn Hill.
Wow, Woburn Hill. I know somebody who'll be interested in that. :)
OOOOh this is a big thread. I have heard of this Murder but i dont really know that much.
Who is this Gordon Parry? where does he fit into it?
Jog my memory did the husband get charged/stand trial/ serve time/ proved innocent?
And who do you think did it? and how?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike
Hi Spike
Mark R could probably answer your questions better than I could. There are many people who think Wallace did it and that his alibi was a load of bull feathers. For what it is worth, this is what is stated about the case on Wikipedia--
"Wallace consistently denied having anything to do with the crime, but was charged with murder and stood trial at Liverpool's Crown Court. Despite the evidence against him being purely circumstantial, and the statement of a local milk delivery boy ? who was certain he had spoken to Julia Wallace only minutes before her husband would have had to leave to catch his tram ? Wallace was found guilty after an hour's deliberation, and sentenced to death.
"In an unprecedented move, the Court of Criminal Appeal quashed the verdict on the grounds that it was 'not supported by the weight of the evidence', and Wallace walked free. . . . Richard Gordon Parry [was] a junior employee at Wallace's insurance firm. Parry was a petty criminal aged 22 who was always short of money. . . . Parry died in 1980 without admitting his involvement in the crime."
Herbert and Julia Wallace are buried together in Anfield Cemetery. Some might argue that the burial of the couple together is an indication of Wallace's innocence.
All the best
Chris
Cheers Chris:PDT11 Off to have a read
Ive got James Murphy's book and though I don't agree with his conclusion it's a great read and very atmospheric. For me, it was Parry, the bloodied glove, no forced entry into the house meaning it was someone Julia knew, Alan Close seeing Julia alive later on than Walace could have done it, him being a petty thief and having a motive when WHW shopped him for stealing the money when he done WHW round when he was ill. Radio City also thought it was him during their investigation in the 1970s but he died before he could be confronted but earlier interviewers said he was cocky and seemed to 'know a lot about the case'. - Too much methinks.
It was either someone Julia knew, or was conned into letting into the house.
My theory: Parry was the "brains" behind the plot, but had an accomplice, who probably panicked and killed Julia.
It makes no sense for Parry to have arranged such an intricate plan and then try to rob the house himself. He had to have an accomplice.
Unless of course Parry was a homicidal maniac, who planned to kill Julia all along. But if that was so, there was no need for the Qualtrough plan. Parry could have struck the previous night when Wallace was at the chess club.
No, the Qualtrough plan was intrinsic to a planned robbery, not a killing.
Wallace goes off in search of Qualtrough, while Qualtrough (the accomplice) knocks on the door of 29 Wolverton Street, with the intention to rob. Julia, embarrassed and confused, admits Qualtrough to await the return of her husband.
Qualtrough panics for some reason (Julia smells a rat?) and kills her.
Parry takes a detour to pick up Qualtrough as pre-arranged, learns of the killing, and later tries to clean out his car. Qualtrough left the gloves and iron bar in it when Parry dropped him off somewhere not far away.
I think this fits the evidence better.
There is also a curiously overlooked segment of John Parkes' testimony:
"After the murder, and his virtual confession to me, Parry came round with another chap. And after that, the Atkinsons advised me to change my route to work, in case anything nasty happened." [Wilkes, 1985, p.237]
WHHOOAA!
Parry, the supposed killer, recruits someone else to lean on Parkes to keep quiet? Not likely, imho.
Or was "the other chap" the actual killer, and Parry merely the accomplice, driver and brains behind the plot?
I know it's only his opinion but he had Wallace hanging for this.
He said it took a chess players mind to think of the Qualthrough and Menlove Gdns East plan.
He brushed aside a motive, had Wallace in the nude when he commited the murder but for the overcoat that Julia was found with. (could have a point)
Said he knocked at the Johnson's (who he said were friends of his grandparents) but weren't they on their way out for a night out when they bumped into Wallace in the entry?
He didn't mention Milk Boy, Alan Closes' statement about him seeing Julia at a time that put WHW out of the frame.
He didn't mention that the judge practically implied that the jury should find him not guilty - though they didn't.
He didn't mention the 'bloodied glove' belonging to Parry nor his motives or part in the story.
Will we ever know :)
He was on between 9am and 9.30am if you want to use the listen again facility.
Only saw this post now...Yes Ged, was it Stephen Guy on Radio Merseyside? I missed it but was informed of it...All of your points are correct of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
Wallace was not wearing the overcoat. Julia was lying on it, so he is wrong about that and yes, Wallace met the Johnston's in the entryway by chance. He certainly didn't knock at no.31. Why it would take a chess player's mind to conceive the Qualtrough plan and the sojourn to MG area is anybody's guess...Wallace wasn't even that great a chess player...I suppose to quote Peter Gabriel; Looks are deceptive but distinctions are clear...I suppose the broadcaster is as prejudiced as the jury were.
That is the problem (and always has been) with this case - too many facts are critically error strewn by so-called 'experts'. There was some activity on the JTR Casebook recently and Stewart Evans has taken it upon himself to state that the Wallace Case is not a mystery at all and that Goodman's TKOJW is outdated and that it is now widely regarded that Wallace was guilty because the jury found him guilty...Sheesh...:PDT_Xtremez_42: I made the point that there isn't a scrap of evidence to justify 100% the verdict reached by the jury. While I am not doubting there is a possibility that WHW committed the murder, there is also extremely strong evidence to point to him being innocent of the crime as well...
http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=141&page=5
As to your point Will We Ever Know? I don't believe we ever will for sure - we certainly won't whilst rubbish is still being written and broadcast about it :)
Yes, that was him Mark, Stephen Guy on his villans slot on I think Andy Ball's programme.
Radio Merseyside has recently (re)released (as a tribute to Vincent Burke) Burke's Law. It is the DVD and has a running time of nearly two hours. Included are the accounts of Lock Ah Tam, The Maybrick Case, The Wallace Case and the Cameo Murders. It is ?12.99.
Got that 2 years ago, they must have re-hashed it after Vincent's death. He does have a new book out too, ironically and sadly dedicated to his wife who died in 2007, the Wallace case is in it, hopefully in better fashion than that dvd which is very open ended and doesn't even touch on Parry. There are a few pics in it I hadn't seen before too from private collectors.
There is an article in tonight?s Echo about the Wallace murder.
Another book coming out!
Yes Ged - the DVD has been released as a tribute. Yes, Parry isn't even mentioned...I think I might have mentioned it before but there are some errors in the Wallace chapter in Vincent's book.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
For a local crime historian, to get so many things wrong and to leave a prime suspect out of possibly the most high profile Liverpool murder ever is unforgivable really, especially as so much more about the case is now known and for me, is almost on a par with the errors in the Cameo murder book discussed on another thread here. I liked to listen to Vincent's accounts of trials on Radio Merseyside but if doubts of his accounts are cast so readily in this case, it doesn't breed confidence in the other lesser known cases.
Whatever happened to Tom Slemen and his sidekick revealing all about the real murderer in this case, didn't they point the finger at the Johnson's?
Yes. We still await Tom Slemen's Wallace book...
Yes. I've just found it online...If I am correct he has used many of my ideas (to be diplomatic...) He has been researching it for 2 years. If what I believe is correct, I mentioned this 7 years ago...:disgust: Mind you, good luck to him for finding a publisher.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samp
Well, MarkR. YES you have been on this case forever.. Waiting for YOUR book.. Get out and find that publisher before he does... and best of luck to you.. Don't let your work just fade away into someone elses hands.. get a move on matie... I will buy your book...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark R
Actually I managed to track down a copy of the Echo article in the library yesterday. I would have to say that after reading it I don't agree with his theory. If I am correct, the protagonist he says committed the act was Marsden (hardly original...) Marsden has been a suspect from day one and although I said that he could have been the murderer, there is still NO definite proof that it was him. I am not a big fan of condemning somebody who cannot defend themselves. If/when the book gets published, I await a backlash from Marsden's relatives a la Johnston/Slemen, Parry/Wilkes...:PDT_Xtremez_42:
GED,
which of the Cameo books you mentioned, had errors, and what where they, specifically? I know the Shortall one did but dont think the Skelly one did.
Mark,
I agree with you. If Wallace organised the murder with Marsden and Parry, why would he name them as likely suspects to the police. (which is not to say they both may have been culpable without Wallace's knowledge). As for the Slemen rubbish about the Johnsons - that's exactly what it is, Rubbish.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Dick
Yes, the Shortall one did so I binned it. I think there is a list of them on the Cameo thread.
Which Cameo thread Ged? And whereabout or who by?
I know Shortall had Livermore pleading at the Assizes when solicitors weren't allowed to! And referring to the judges, "Judge Cassels" etc, when they were known at the time as "Mr Justice..." And of course the ambiguity of the planning of the crime originating in the Beehive which suddenly and magically turned into the Boundary! But any more Shortall howlers?