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Thread: Lost Street

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    Member D.C's Avatar
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    Default Lost Street

    A long time ago, I recall someone telling me about workmen discovering a sort of hidden street in Liverpool - near the city centre.
    Sorry to sound vague but it's year's since I heard the tale and although I didn't believe it at the time, reading these threads has made me wonder!!
    According to what I was told, the entrance was down an alley and it really was "the place time forgot"
    Has anyone heard this story??


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    Senior Member skgogosfan's Avatar
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    One of Tom Slemen's stories was about a hidden street supposedly under Lime St station or leading from there to the Adelphi. It'd be cool if it were true,but I doubt it.

    Dave.

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    PhilipG
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    I agree with you, Dave.
    When I saw this thread, I thought: "Oh no, not again!"
    If any streets were ever covered up (and I don't know how - or why) they would have been documented at the time.
    But there's no evidence that it happened in Liverpool.
    It did happen in Southport, but there's no mystery about that one.

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    Cadfael
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    Only the 'mini street' under Renshaw Street springs to mind, which I've been in and there are bricked up house window and doors there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cadfael View Post
    Only the 'mini street' under Renshaw Street springs to mind, which I've been in and there are bricked up house window and doors there.
    Something I'd love to see
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    Cadfael
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kev View Post
    Something I'd love to see
    When I'm down at St Luke's again, I'll take a nose and see if it's still 'accessible' there. Have a picture to keep you going!
    Last edited by Cadfael; 08-15-2007 at 04:16 PM.

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    DaisyChains
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    great pic!


    We have had a thread like this before in this section me thinks.....

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    PhilipG
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cadfael View Post
    Only the 'mini street' under Renshaw Street springs to mind, which I've been in and there are bricked up house window and doors there.
    Could you tell us more about this 'mini street'?
    My earlier comment was expressing my frustration that we only hear vague references to this hidden street, and no details.
    The photo is interesting, but all it shows is one bricked up doorway.

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    Cadfael
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    Could you tell us more about this 'mini street'?
    My earlier comment was expressing my frustration that we only hear vague references to this hidden street, and no details.
    The photo is interesting, but all it shows is one bricked up doorway.
    I certainly can. Renshaw Street, behind what was Quick Fit is a manhole cover. There was a rumour passed around the Tunnels bods years ago that there was something down there, we spoke to the owner of the Dispensary and he said that his cellar system wasn't deep and that it sounded hollow.

    Locating the manhole cover one boozy afternoon (as you do), we climbed down with the aid of a ladder. You find yourself in a boxed off 'room' about 8ft by 8ft leading two ways, one towards the picture attached above, and the other, pointing towards the direction of the Adelphi. This small section has a curb (as I tripped over it) and has rectangular doorways which were bricked up. Also, there were large windows with a stone sash - also bricked up. The 'street' went about 25yards before it was bricked up - I presume at one point, you could access most of Renshaw Street like this. I didn't have a camera at that point - but I'm in contact with someone who may have more pics. Leave it with me.

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    PhilipG
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    The street in Southport (Nevill Street) that was filled in sloped down to the beach and was filled in.
    It was never underground originally, although since it's been filled in it is now.
    I still can't get my head around the idea of an underground street.
    And why windows?
    Windows are to let light in.
    Perhaps it might be argued that this 'street' in Renshaw Street was once above ground and has been built over since, but why build a street below street-level?
    Besides, some of the original buildings survive in Renshaw Street, especially either side of Quiggins (the original Quiggins, not Central Hall), and the two pubs either side of Bolton Street are very old.
    Renshaw Street was first built up in the 1790s.
    Before that there was a ropery on the side we're talking about (which took up the whole length of the street) and the rest of the area was fields.
    The land at the top end (the part we're talking about) belonged to Mr Bold, who also owned the site of St Luke's Church. (It was he who made the covenant that only a church could ever stand on that site).

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    Cadfael
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    The street in Southport (Nevill Street) that was filled in sloped down to the beach and was filled in.
    It was never underground originally, although since it's been filled in it is now.
    I still can't get my head around the idea of an underground street.
    And why windows?
    Windows are to let light in.
    Perhaps it might be argued that this 'street' in Renshaw Street was once above ground and has been built over since, but why build a street below street-level?
    Besides, some of the original buildings survive in Renshaw Street, especially either side of Quiggins (the original Quiggins, not Central Hall), and the two pubs either side of Bolton Street are very old.
    Renshaw Street was first built up in the 1790s.
    Before that there was a ropery on the side we're talking about (which took up the whole length of the street) and the rest of the area was fields.
    The land at the top end (the part we're talking about) belonged to Mr Bold, who also owned the site of St Luke's Church. (It was he who made the covenant that only a church could ever stand on that site).
    The street posed many questions when we were down there too but we could never really explain what was behind the doors/windows and whether it ever did see daylight as part of a basement cellar system. If the access is still there, perhaps I could sort out a few people to come along and have a nose for themselves. I'm not too up on the history of that area Philip so I couldn't say much for the buildings on top.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cadfael View Post
    I certainly can. Renshaw Street, behind what was Quick Fit is a manhole cover. There was a rumour passed around the Tunnels bods years ago that there was something down there, we spoke to the owner of the Dispensary and he said that his cellar system wasn't deep and that it sounded hollow.

    Locating the manhole cover one boozy afternoon (as you do), we climbed down with the aid of a ladder. You find yourself in a boxed off 'room' about 8ft by 8ft leading two ways, one towards the picture attached above, and the other, pointing towards the direction of the Adelphi. This small section has a curb (as I tripped over it) and has rectangular doorways which were bricked up. Also, there were large windows with a stone sash - also bricked up. The 'street' went about 25yards before it was bricked up - I presume at one point, you could access most of Renshaw Street like this. I didn't have a camera at that point - but I'm in contact with someone who may have more pics. Leave it with me.
    Thanks so much for taking the time to reply - it certainly fits with the story I'd heard and being fairly new to the site, I apologise if I re-hashed old tales.
    It was just one of those tales that I'd never forgot....
    Dee...

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    DaisyChains
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cadfael View Post
    The street posed many questions when we were down there too but we could never really explain what was behind the doors/windows and whether it ever did see daylight as part of a basement cellar system. If the access is still there, perhaps I could sort out a few people to come along and have a nose for themselves. I'm not too up on the history of that area Philip so I couldn't say much for the buildings on top.
    let us know when you're going and we'll be ready with hard hats!!

  14. #14
    Cadfael
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    I'll do a recce of the place and see if it's still there. All we'll need is a large ladder - kev, you can fit one in the boot of your mini

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    Quote Originally Posted by D.C View Post
    A long time ago, I recall someone telling me about workmen discovering a sort of hidden street in Liverpool - near the city centre.
    Sorry to sound vague but it's year's since I heard the tale and although I didn't believe it at the time, reading these threads has made me wonder!!
    According to what I was told, the entrance was down an alley and it really was "the place time forgot"
    Has anyone heard this story??

    far more impressive and better-recorded examples in Edinburgh

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_King's_Close

    though at least that proves that such things do exist and aren't all a product of T Slemen's imagination...

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    PhilipG
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghughesarch View Post
    far more impressive and better-recorded examples in Edinburgh

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_King's_Close

    though at least that proves that such things do exist and aren't all a product of T Slemen's imagination...
    Actually, it proves the opposite.
    That article makes it clear that Mary King's Close is the cellars of a 7-storey building.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    Actually, it proves the opposite.
    That article makes it clear that Mary King's Close is the cellars of a 7-storey building.

    Sorry, it does no such thing - no mention of cellars - these are the lower floors (originally above ground) of buildings which are now within the basement levels of the present buildings on the site.

  18. #18
    PhilipG
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghughesarch View Post
    Sorry, it does no such thing - no mention of cellars - these are the lower floors (originally above ground) of buildings which are now within the basement levels of the present buildings on the site.
    If we're going to be pedantic, it doesn't say the lower floors were above ground.
    Floors don't get any lower than cellars.
    The point I was making was that it is not, and was not, a buried street.
    You, yourself, seem to think the lower floors were above ground.
    They are now used as foundations for the present building, which led me to assume they were cellars, unless the present occupiers of the building have to walk up one or two flights of stairs to reach the 'ground' floor of the newer building.

    The courts in Liverpool were built with cellars.
    The maximum use of the site was obtained.
    I'd be very surprised if this building in Edinburgh didn't have cellars.
    Last edited by PhilipG; 08-13-2007 at 04:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    If we're going to be pedantic, it doesn't say the lower floors were above ground.
    Floors don't get any lower than cellars.
    The point I was making was that it is not, and was not, a buried street.
    You, yourself, seem to think the lower floors were above ground.
    They are now used as foundations for the present building, which led me to assume they were cellars, unless the present occupiers of the building have to walk up one or two flights of stairs to reach the 'ground' floor of the newer building.

    The courts in Liverpool were built with cellars.
    The maximum use of the site was obtained.
    I'd be very surprised if this building in Edinburgh didn't have cellars.
    It's on what was a fairly unevenly (and steeply) sloping site. The surviving walls are a mixture of cellars and ground and first floors. The ground level of these buildings is now the cellar floor level. So that floor is a buried street surface.

    http://www.edinburgh.org.uk/MaryKing/history.htm

    This section sort of explains it - the current street level at the top of the site is two floors above the early street level:

    http://www.edinburgh.org.uk/MaryKing/section.htm

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    Cadfael
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    This is a picture of the 'lost street' under Renshaw Street. I have other pictures of this too, but have contacted the press over this and feel that they should have first view of all the other pictures.

    What you are seeing is the small 'road' running underneath Renshaw Street. You drop down through the grid and end up in a square room, blocked off by two bricked up door arches, but turning a corner you come to the below view. On the left you can see the remains of the bricked up doors with their stone lintels at the top and the blocked up windows with their stone sashes. At the end of the passageway, there was a right turn, which then led to more of the same. This then turned left again and it was blocked up by an arched door (bricked up).

    A handful of people know the location of this 'street' and I can guarentee that this is 100% true, that it is underneath Renshaw Street.

    (Picture removed due to it not actually being a street or not knowing the full history of the building it was under )
    Last edited by Cadfael; 08-15-2007 at 04:18 PM.

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    Amazing picture and so much work from you gone into the finding of it thank you for sharing , im sure there are many more underground streets in liverpool.
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  22. #22
    PhilipG
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cadfael View Post
    This is a picture of the 'lost street' under Renshaw Street. I have other pictures of this too, but have contacted the press over this and feel that they should have first view of all the other pictures.

    What you are seeing is the small 'road' running underneath Renshaw Street. You drop down through the grid and end up in a square room, blocked off by two bricked up door arches, but turning a corner you come to the below view. On the left you can see the remains of the bricked up doors with their stone lintels at the top and the blocked up windows with their stone sashes. At the end of the passageway, there was a right turn, which then led to more of the same. This then turned left again and it was blocked up by an arched door (bricked up).

    A handful of people know the location of this 'street' and I can guarentee that this is 100% true, that it is underneath Renshaw Street.

    Attachment 4110

    I see you always write 'road' and 'street' in inverted commas.
    Other people might not notice, but I think you're not sure what they are.
    They're cellars, nothing else.
    In an earlier post you mention 25 yards.
    That's only about 75 feet - about the size of one largish building.
    Refer to my earlier post detailing the history of Renshaw Street.
    Now you've got people believing that Liverpool is littered with "many more underground streets"!
    Last edited by PhilipG; 08-15-2007 at 02:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    I see you always write 'road' and 'street' in inverted commas.
    Other people might not notice, but I think you're not sure what they are.
    They're cellars, nothing else.
    Refer to my earlier post detailing the history of Renshaw Street.
    Now you've got people believing that Liverpool is littered with underground streets!
    Hi Philip

    I am as skeptical as you are, although I will say that I have been thinking of this issue of underground streets, tunnels that go here and there, e.g., the ones that supposedly go from the site of the castle to the Mersey, from Mother Redcap's in Liscard to the Red Noses west of New Brighton, and even the rather fantastic and implausible suggestion that medieval monks tunneled under the Mersey from the northern shore near St. Michael's to Stanlaw Abbey near Ellesmere Port. Frankly, I think one thing that makes people in Liverpool believe such stories is the existence of Williamson's tunnels right here in this very same city. So it is perhaps no wonder that people are prepared to believe such other tunnels or underground passages exist, whether they are actual or not.

    All the best

    Chris
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    Cadfael
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    I see you always write 'road' and 'street' in inverted commas.
    Other people might not notice, but I think you're not sure what they are.
    They're cellars, nothing else.
    Refer to my earlier post detailing the history of Renshaw Street.
    Now you've got people believing that Liverpool is littered with underground streets!
    I'm sorry if I left any information out of the above post. About 1ft away from the wall is a line of curb stones which you would not get if it was a simple cellar system - indicating some sort of pavement under the rubble you can see in the picture. The opposite wall was much newer which would indicate that this passageway/street/road - call it what you wish, was much wider.
    My personal view is that if it was a cellar system, then it would have been a bloomin large house going off in 3 different directions, towards St Luke's, and towards the Adelphi.
    I have poured over maps of this area and the layout of them does not fit in with any type of building I have seen on maps, it is set away from the road but in order for this to have been a celler system, the houses must have been about 8ft wide if Renshaw Street was there at the time.

    I can only report on what I saw from first hand information, people can make up their own mind as to what is classed as a road/lane or celler system.

  25. #25
    PhilipG
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cadfael View Post
    I'm sorry if I left any information out of the above post. About 1ft away from the wall is a line of curb stones which you would not get if it was a simple cellar system - indicating some sort of pavement under the rubble you can see in the picture. The opposite wall was much newer which would indicate that this passageway/street/road - call it what you wish, was much wider.
    My personal view is that if it was a cellar system, then it would have been a bloomin large house going off in 3 different directions, towards St Luke's, and towards the Adelphi.
    I have poured over maps of this area and the layout of them does not fit in with any type of building I have seen on maps, it is set away from the road but in order for this to have been a celler system, the houses must have been about 8ft wide if Renshaw Street was there at the time.

    I can only report on what I saw from first hand information, people can make up their own mind as to what is classed as a road/lane or celler system.
    I'll post a couple of maps, later.
    Not knowing exactly what these 'kerbstones' are, or look like, I'd hazard a guess at some sort of drainage system.
    I agree with Chris, that Williamson's tunnels have fuelled a lot of rumours, and I know that there will be other tunnels.
    But I can't understand why there should be underground streets.
    I still don't accept the concept of underground streets (anywhere), especially in a city as young (and consisting of solid rock) as Liverpool.
    Remember, Renshaw Street was fields until the 1790s.

    Cellars also went under the roadway.
    Part of a building in Berry Street was demolished recently (it was built 1790s), and you could (perhaps still can) see a doorway leading under the street.
    I could romanticise and say it's a tunnel leading to St Luke's, but I don't think so.
    Last edited by PhilipG; 08-15-2007 at 03:40 PM.

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    Cadfael
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    I'll post a couple of maps, later.
    Not knowing exactly what these 'kerbstones' are, or look like, I'd hazard a guess at some sort of drainage system.
    I agree with Chris, that Williamson's tunnels have fuelled a lot of rumours, and I know that there will be other tunnels.
    But I can't understand why there should be underground streets.
    I still don't accept the concept of underground streets (anywhere), especially in a city as young (and consisting of solid rock) as Liverpool.
    Remember, Renshaw Street was fields until the 1790s.

    Cellars also went under the roadway.
    Part of a building in Berry Street was demolished recently (it was built 1790s), and you could (perhaps still can) see a doorway leading under the street.
    I could romanticise and say it's a tunnel leading to St Luke's, but I don't think so.

    You are quite correct Philip. However one has to ask the simple question - Is something that is underground merely a tunnel, a road, a cellar or a walkway.

    That is the biggest problem that people cannot agree on. Whatever the outcome, it is good for people to find things like this that aren't generally known about, they can call it what they like, but everyone has their own opinions which always muddles up what exactly it is.

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    Is this the place that is accessed by the old Kwik Fit place ?

    Just in passing, where they are digging up Brownlow Hill (outside the Electrical Engineering Building)the trench has cut along some brickwork which turns a corner and this is lined with white ceramic faced bricks, I just noticed them after the rain the other day.

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    Could you put up that picture again Cadfael,I'd really like to see it. Even if it's just a cellar,anything like this about "Hidden Liverpool" just fascinates me. People don't know what's under their feet.

    Dave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skgogosfan View Post
    Could you put up that picture again Cadfael,I'd really like to see it. Even if it's just a cellar,anything like this about "Hidden Liverpool" just fascinates me. People don't know what's under their feet.

    Dave.
    Drop me an E-mail and you can have it in the original format. If I don't hear from the Echo tomorrow about a small feature then I'll bung the rest of the pictures up on my Underground site.

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    Ok I've sent a message using the "send message" thingy on your profile.

    Dave.

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