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Thread: Date Stones and signs around Liverpool

  1. #1
    Creator & Administrator Kev's Avatar
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    Exclamation Date Stones and signs around Liverpool

    Thanks to Chris for suggesting this thread . Here's an example...

    The old Dairy, Garston:

    The Slaughter House, Garston:

    Above the ProFlex Gym, Garston:

    Speke Hall:

    Speke Hall:

    Croxteth Hall, Home Farm:



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  2. #2
    PhilipG
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    Great idea.

    Could we have close-ups and the whole building please?

    I know where there's a beast and a date, together.
    Not far from me.
    I'll snap it tomorrow.

  3. #3
    Creator & Administrator Kev's Avatar
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    I will endeavor to provide both, close up and whole building.


    Last edited by Kev; 12-24-2006 at 09:03 AM.
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    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Hi Kev

    Glad you like the idea of this thread. Years ago I did some pencil drawings of old local datestones for a projected history book I was going to write. I was just a teenager at the time. Another datestone worth photographing is on Springwood Cottages, Brocklebank Lane and Mather Avenue, the date "1684" enclosed in a heart with initials. "The Cottage" on Springwood Avenue, south of Allerton Hall, has the date "1639" above the main door. Also the house known as "The Three Sixes" on Aigburth Road near Aigburth Vale at the entrance to Fulwood Park and opposite the gates of Sefton Park: the datestone states "1666" and gave the name to the house. An old photograph of the house appears in Robert Griffiths' The History of the Royal and Ancient Park of Toxteth Liverpool (1907). I think the old date stone of the original Brook House is set in the wall of the bowling green of the present Brook House on Smithdown Road. It is also pictured in Griffiths' book.

    Chris
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    Senior Member marky's Avatar
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    I suppose the ultimate date is on the gate of 'Park Lodge'...AD 1207. I'm not sure what, if any, is original in this building, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marky View Post
    I suppose the ultimate date is on the gate of 'Park Lodge'...AD 1207. I'm not sure what, if any, is original in this building, though.
    Hi Marky

    Certainly the date on the gate "1207" is based on the designation in Robert Griffiths' history of Toxteth as the "Higher Lodge" of King John but whether such a lodge was actually built in 1207 at that spot or sometime during the middle ages appears unknown. I somehow think 1207 was a bit early for the house to be built. As you probably know there are pictured bits and pieces of slabs of sandstone that were supposedly from the facade of the original lodge photographed on the lawn of the house shown in Griffiths' book (p. 26).

    I have started another thread on Toxteth Park Higher and Lower Lodges where I speak in detail about both lodges.

    Chris
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    Creator & Administrator Kev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marky View Post
    I suppose the ultimate date is on the gate of 'Park Lodge'...AD 1207. I'm not sure what, if any, is original in this building, though.
    Not sure it counts as a date 'stamp' as such. It fascinates me this gate. Thousands of people drive past it every day. I wonder if they realize its significance.

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  8. #8
    bunf
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    This is on the 'Wedding Shop' building in St George's Place.

    The initials are 'N S W B'

    Anyone know what these stand for?
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  9. #9
    PhilipG
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    Quote Originally Posted by bunf View Post
    This is on the 'Wedding Shop' building in St George's Place.

    The initials are 'N S W B'

    Anyone know what these stand for?
    North and South Wales Bank.

  10. #10
    PhilipG
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    Default Batty's Dairy.

    Aigburth Road/Brentwood Avenue.
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    PhilipG,
    There's a similar one on Walton Breck rd, L4.
    Must take a picture sometime.
    The dairy has now been converted into flats. I remember when it was open as a dairy.

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    Nice pic, Philip, of the carved datestone on the former dairy at Aigburth Road and Brentwood Avenue!

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
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  13. #13
    PhilipG
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    Quote Originally Posted by lindylou View Post
    PhilipG,
    There's a similar one on Walton Breck rd, L4.
    Must take a picture sometime.
    The dairy has now been converted into flats. I remember when it was open as a dairy.
    Thanks Lindy & Chris.

    Batty's has also been converted into flats.
    Aigburth Road was too busy earlier to cross and take a wide shot of the building.
    Besides, I didn't have time.
    Frankly, the rest of the building isn't very interesting.

  14. #14
    bunf
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    North and South Wales Bank.
    fantastic stuff!!

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    Hi all

    In regard to the gates of the Higher Lodge with the date "1207" on them, though these are obviously new gates with the date of 1207 given to commemorate the fact that the house at this location was the lodge of the Royal Park founded by King John, it brings to mind that there was (or is) a well in Garston where the old mill stood, almost opposite to St. Mary's Church that had the date "1292." Coincidentally, this is the same year Adam de Gerstan gave monastic lands in the area to the monks of Stanlaw Abbey and Upholland. I spoke to the late Stanley Harris, a local historian, in the early Sixties, and his view was that the date was added later by somebody who knew something of that history. Actual dates on buildings etc are rare before the 1500's and would in any case more likely to be in Roman numerals not arabic numerals.

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
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  16. #16
    PhilipG
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    This 1207 date has only gone up comparitively recently.
    I'm sure they have the signed deeds from King John to substantiate such an exact claim.

  17. #17
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    This 1207 date has only gone up comparitively recently.
    I'm sure they have the signed deeds from King John to substantiate such an exact claim.
    Well maybe they do. In fact it might be interesting to see what the present owner of Park Lodge does have in terms of deeds. Perhaps I am overly skeptical, but I would somehow doubt they have anything that dates the property to 1207 but that the date was put on the gates on the basis that King John gave the charter to Liverpool in 1207 and that he also ordered the creation of the royal forest.

    Chris
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  18. #18
    PhilipG
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge View Post
    Well maybe they do. In fact it might be interesting to see what the present owner of Park Lodge does have in terms of deeds. Perhaps I am overly skeptical, but I would somehow doubt they have anything that dates the property to 1207 but that the date was put on the gates on the basis that King John gave the charter to Liverpool in 1207 and that he also ordered the creation of the royal forest.

    Chris
    Chris,

    I put all the smileys on to show I was joking.

  19. #19
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    Chris,

    I put all the smileys on to show I was joking.
    I kind of thought you did, although the topic of whether there is documentation for the property going back that far (for the land, if not the house) is still a valid one.

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
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    St Marys, Irvine Street, Edge Hill. There is a date of 1812 on the drainpipes of this church...unusual. There was some repair-work to the Church and surrounding wall at the time of this pic (Sept 2005).
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  21. #21
    MissInformed
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    great spot marky!

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    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marky View Post
    St Marys, Irvine Street, Edge Hill. There is a date of 1812 on the drainpipes of this church...unusual. There was some repair-work to the Church and surrounding wall at the time of this pic (Sept 2005).
    Nice, Marky! I agree that dates on drainpipes are unusual, although I have seen dates and designs on drainpipes before, as in the below example from Alexandra Hall on Aberystwyth promenade, Wales, found on the BBC Mid Wales Website.

    Christopher T. George
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  23. #23
    theninesisters
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    Every church bell in Liverpool has an inscription on from when it was cast, the date, inscriptions to do with the bell/church and usually a verse from the Bible or well known local verse.

    Possibly the easiest way to date a bell is to look for the date!

    The inscription on Great George - the 14 Ton Bell in Liverpool Cathedral (for example) reads:

    Make a Joyful Noise unto the Lord All Ye Lands
    To the Glory of God
    in Thankfulness for Great Mercies
    Received and in Affectionate Remembrance
    of the City of Liverpool
    William Baron Vestey of Kingswood
    and His Wife Evelyn
    with
    Sir Edmund Hoyle Vestey Baronet
    and His Wife Ellen
    Gave Me in the year
    1937
    And in Memory of King George V
    Named me
    Great George

  24. #24
    MissInformed
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    that's a brilliant piece of info

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    Here's 4 nice examples found on the old Bryant and May houses in Garston:









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    Creator & Administrator Kev's Avatar
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    Found this date stone on The Old Police Station down Lark Lane today. I've included a few more carved stones too:




    ^^Liverbird?^^

    ^^Liverbird^^




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  27. #27
    MissInformed
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    great pics kev.
    it's a great building. thank god it's still there!

  28. #28
    Creator & Administrator Kev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kev View Post

    ^^ Its very similar to Garston Police Station:

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  29. #29
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    Nice, Kev! I take it you meant "Bryant and May" and have taken the liberty of correcting the spelling.

    Chris
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge View Post
    Nice, Kev! I take it you meant "Bryant and May" and have taken the liberty of correcting the spelling.

    Chris
    Chris, what did I originally put? . Sometimes I'm so keen to get my pics up
    Liverpool in Pictures/ YO! Liverpool has taken me over 10 years to develop and maintain.

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