I went down to the meeting last weekend. I couldn't quite figure out what the concerns were really about. There seemed to be quite a few people from the St Michaels area as opposed to the post garden festival developments and there was a lot of talk about contaminated land and bird nests. If memory serves me right most of the exisitng 'new' housing is where the storage tanks used to be (Gardenia Grove, Beech Avenue). The Garden Festival site is essentially the old rubbish tip. Was toxic material dumped there? If it's methane from household rubbish and whatnot, I guess there are established ways of managing that problem.
None of the trees in this area is older than the Garden Festival. The more established trees are still largely present in what is now called Priory Wood. I'm sympathetic to wildlife habitats but I find it difficult to believe that that's the whole story. No one seemed to have much of an idea of what to do with the site apart from 'saving it until something greener can be done.' I suggested that the opportunity for retail development in this part of town might improve the mix on offer in this part of L17. No one seemed particularly interested. My claim that a park open to the public that also connected the promenade with St Michaels's station should ideally lead to the Dingle Lane / Promenade Gardens barrier being removed to allow for through traffic so that the wider city could make use of the facilities went down like a lead baloon!
I thought that it was Shorefields up as far as the cast iron shore. Anyway Im proud to come from the Dingle.
And so you should be proud to come from the Dingle !! Really the Shorefields area including the Shorefields School are all in the Dingle. It's interesting to look at the OS map of the area
http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/getamap/
Just type in the word Aigburth and then pan west to the word Dingle and you'll see where officially the area is centred on.
Last edited by taffy; 04-20-2007 at 05:00 PM.
I don't know why you keep going on about "how the locals deny they live in the Dingle". Perhaps thats because we live in Riverside Gardens! Its a fact.
Personally I have an interest in local history so I am fascinated by the history of the area and the fact that it USED to be Dingle. But it really isn't Dingle anymore.
Not according to my address anyway.
You seem to be justifyably proud of Dingle and Toxteth but won't allow us to be proud of Riverside Gardens.
Mike
www.riversidegardens.org.uk
Riverside gardens is the name of the estate, not the area. The area is dingle.
If people would be honest and admit that they live in Dingle, then Dingle could be promoted as including places like Riverside Gardens and the Herculaneum Dock and the perpetuated idea that Dingle is somewhere undesirable to live might start to vanish.
I live near the Ancient Chapel, but my neighbours in Riverside Gardens which is next to the geographical feature that is the Dingle (and even includes Dingle Point!), have, as has been pointed out, even had their postcode changed from L8 to L17, and my other neighbours in the Herculaneum Dock, which is next door to Dingle Bank, have an L3 postcode.
L3 is London Road, etc., for heavens sake, but because the South Docks were private property L3 has been chosen instead of L8.
Of course we all know it's to do with property prices, but it's not doing anything to encourage people living close to each other to get along with each other.
The funniest part of all this is that my neighbours in Riverside Gardens and the Herculaneum Dock live even closer to The Dingle than I do!
Last edited by PhilipG; 04-21-2007 at 12:28 AM.
Aigburth is so passé these days. L17 is the postcode everyone wants!
If you don't believe me have a look at:
http://money.independent.co.uk/prope...cle2456837.ece
(I know it's full of inaccuracies, what isn't these days? It's allegedly about Aigburth but it's mostly about L17 south of Aigburth. When people outside the city think of Aigburth they think of Lark Lane)
I'm not sure anyone outside Liverpool can correctly pronounce Aigburth anyway.
RIP Aigburth. Viva L17!
L17 - you know it makes sense
Great website, Mike.
Riverside Gardens always conjures up an image of Caryl, Warwick or Kent Gardens for me but without the same lifeforce. Anyway, that's another story.
Historically and geographically most of Riverside Gardens is in the Dingle. Look on the map, find where Dingle Vale intersects with Colebrooke Road and draw a straigt line to the Mersey. The area north of that is most definitely in the Dingle.
However, in terms of Liverpool in the 21st Century, Riverside Gardens is not in the Dingle it's in L17. Wasn't it, according to LCC, in the Dingle briefly until the locals asked for the signs to be removed?
The area referred to as the Dingle seems to be a moveable feast. I'm not sure until LCC put up the recent signs that there was ever a clear understanding of where its boundaries lay. The old Dingle tramsheds then bus garage now appears to be in Toxteth and not Dingle, I think. Although the sign for Toxteth is actually north of this area. (Before anyone corrects me, I know that the Dingle is a district within historical Toxteth Park). My preference is for postcodes. I always know where I stand with L17 and L8.
There are at least two sides to this debate. An historical/geographical strand that with one or two fuzzy edges that clearly puts Riverside Gardens in the Dingle! And a psychological / aspirational one that takes it out of the Dingle and puts it in L17!
Because this area was in recent times uninhabited and because no one woke up one day to find themselves living in L17 having gone to sleep in L8, I don't have a problem with this area being seen as being in L17 or claiming to be in L17. The area for the proposed new developments is ARGUABLY for the most part in L17.
Geographical boundaries between districts within cities is not an exact science. Hence calling the developed southern docks area L3 and not L8 can be seen as having some legitimacy. I feel less comfortable about changing the postcode for an area that used to be known by another postcode although I accept that a city has a legal right to do this.
Some people who live in Caldy over on the Wirral state that they live in Cheshire and not Merseyside. Because this area was once known as Cheshire in their lifetime I have some sympathy for them even though all the wishful thinking in the world will never make it Cheshire again.
I sympathise with the argument based on geographical/historical associations that most of the southern docks and Riverside Gardens should be in L8. I think it would mark this city out as very special if this happened.
My head tells me it's never going to happen.
And we all know why.
I found this on Flikr a couple of weeks ago...it shows the area around Dingle lane. I wanted to add a comment to this pic but I've searched Flickr looking for the persons account (as there were a couple of other pics of interest). I've searched for Dingle Lane, IGF, Herculaneum etc and still can't find it again. If anyone knows a link, please post.
I'm rather tempted to revive the Judas tradition in the Dingle and aim it at the "Deniers".
But, as Jericho says, it'll never happen.
That's a great photo, Marky.
It's about the same time as 4 that Maddieliverpool has put on "Old Lverpool", but I don't know if it's one of his.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7529968...7600034517305/
Yes, that's the one...Maddieliverpool (these early IGF development pics still don't get picked up when I search Flickr, though).
Its a pity that when they 'created' Riverside Gardens they forgot some of the most important things.
1. Pub
2. Bus Stop
3. Shop
Of course I'm not being completely serious but there is a point to be made. Its not impossible to walk to these three places but it is "just a bit too far". (I realise different parts of Riverside Gardens experience this to a varying extent). This leads to a car culture which leads to a lack of community because you rarely bump into people. And once you have decided to drive whats the point in going to your local pub?
The Pub and bus stop would be within walking distance if there wasn't that other big Riverside Gardens problem. "The fence mentality" It should be just a short walk down to the river (and pub and bus) but there is a fence there to keep the baddies out. But what you gain in security to lose in making a community.
I've just got back from walking up Dingle Lane to the shop to get the paper. I didn't pass one person in Riverside Gardens. I was passed by loads of cars though. Once into 'Dingle' there were loads of people walking to the shop some even talking to each other!
One last request. Please don't assume everyone is the same. You often see headlines like "Riverside Gardens residents are angry about..." . There are many opinions, we don't all think the same. Most people are in favour of the new development including the official residents association.
Cheers
Mike
Mike
There's something to be said for not seeing your neighbours.
Only joking, but every time I bump into mine it turns into a long chat, especially when I'm trying to rush off somewhere.
Mike, you must be in the middle of Riverside Gardens, because the Britannia should be your local and you've got bus routes on Riverside Drive (but I suspect it's not a very frequent service).
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