Shops underneath Church street

[PhilipG]

[QUOTE=Cadfael;74215][QUOTE=PhilipG;74214]

If we all agreed on what something was or wasn't then there would be no need for a discussion Philip Whatever people assume underground sections to be isn't the main issue, it is the fact that they have been found and recorded is good enough in my book.
I wouldn't touch the Williamson's Tunnels theory of 'are they tunnels or roads' as you have to define what a road actually is. Certainly there is documentation of two horse drawn carriages passing side by side in an entrance to the Williamsons Tunnels!

"Found and recorded" isn't enough though.
If you know the history of the sites, it usually provides most, if not all, of the answers.
It's rather irresponsible to suggest to impressionable people that underground streets exist, when even you've said in one of your earlier posts that you don't know what is under Renshaw Street.
People want to believe in the fantastic, so I suspect that I'm not going to bother contributing much more to this thread, as I'm only going to repeat myself.
Besides, I'm not sure now what thread I'm in!

[Cadfael]

[QUOTE=PhilipG;74223][QUOTE=Cadfael;74215]

"Found and recorded" isn't enough though.
If you know the history of the sites, it usually provides most, if not all, of the answers.
It's rather irresponsible to suggest to impressionable people that underground streets exist, when even you've said in one of your earlier posts that you don't know what is under Renshaw Street.
People want to believe in the fantastic, so I suspect that I'm not going to bother contributing much more to this thread, as I'm only going to repeat myself.
Besides, I'm not sure now what thread I'm in!

You seem to be the only person to rather than say 'good find, nice to know something is there and thanks for taking the trouble to tell us all' to wanting to argue the toss on something when you've not seen it for yourself. It's little wonder that lots of people don't post things any more for fear of people like yourself picking holes in anything you say, rather than being pleased that something different has been found in the city centre. There is no point in being pedantic about something to the extreme to just make a point.

[PhilipG]

[QUOTE=Cadfael;74227][QUOTE=PhilipG;74223]

You seem to be the only person to rather than say 'good find, nice to know something is there and thanks for taking the trouble to tell us all' to wanting to argue the toss on something when you've not seen it for yourself. It's little wonder that lots of people don't post things any more for fear of people like yourself picking holes in anything you say, rather than being pleased that something different has been found in the city centre. There is no point in being pedantic about something to the extreme to just make a point.

I'm sorry, Brother Cad.
I didn't realise you wanted credit for finding an underground street.
Congratulations.

At one stage you said you enjoyed "Discussions", and I've only put forward my point of view.
I wonder why your post above has taken the tone it has?

[Cadfael]

[QUOTE=PhilipG;74255][QUOTE=Cadfael;74227]

I'm sorry, Brother Cad.
I didn't realise you wanted credit for finding an underground street.
Congratulations.

At one stage you said you enjoyed "Discussions", and I've only put forward my point of view.
I wonder why your post above has taken the tone it has?

Because of your general attitude when it comes to something that you aren't 'up on'. You seem to take great delight in telling us what you do know - which is fantastic, but when it comes to a subject you don't know much about, you try and pull it apart and offer anything but credit for. I'm not after credit, no one is on the site, but for the handful of people who were interested in this subject of the lost street, you have done everything to derail the subject by chopping and changing your views on what is or isn't there and seem to have knowledge of something you've never seen before which is rather funny.

"Found and recorded" isn't enough though.

Maybe not to you, but for the rest of us, it gives a glimpse of the things that people find in this city and are pleasing for other people to view.
Your short comments are of no help to anyone especially your 'well I've not heard of any Mersey Tunnel collapse'. Stick to subjects you know and I'll give you credit for, but don't try and speak down to people because you're not the one in the know for a change.

We've both had our say, let's get back to the subjects at hand and let everyone else continue their posting.

[PhilipG]

Deleted.

[skgogosfan]

Back to Church St.,I read a book about the construction of the Mersey Railway and nothing was mentioned about any sort of shop remains found during tunnelling,either for the original tunnel under Church St itself or the new Loop tunnel under Brooks Alley,and given both of these are close to the surface*,I think this one should be taken with a large bag of salt until hard evidence comes up. But it would be so cool to be true!

*when Waterstones' basement was public,you could hear the trains passing along the [new] tunnel which runs under the Co-Op's bank's front door...

Dave.

[Cadfael]

I've added pictures of the underground street (renshaw street) and a couple of pictures of the cellar system under The Vines on Lime Street:

http://undergroundliverpool.co.uk/renshawstreet

[wsteve55]

Fantastic stuff there,Cadfael. Do you think it will ever be possible to establish why,and how, some of these underground structures exist?
Steve.

[Kev]

I've added pictures of the underground street (renshaw street) and a couple of pictures of the cellar system under The Vines on Lime Street:

http://undergroundliverpool.co.uk/renshawstreet

[PhilipG]

Brother Cad.
I know my comments aren't always appreciated in this thread, but wouldn't it be a good idea to find out exactly what buildings were above this underground "mystery", and trace them right back through street directories?
The answer might then be apparent.
I've given the history of the general area already.

[Cadfael]

Brother Cad.
I know my comments aren't always appreciated in this thread, but wouldn't it be a good idea to find out exactly what buildings were above this underground "mystery", and trace them right back through street directories?
The answer might then be apparent.
I've given the history of the general area already.

Your comments are always welcome Philip, just because we don't see eye to eye on what something is or isn't, you are a wealth of knowledge and we're all grateful to have you on this forum.

It is something that I am going to look in to, for the moment I am going through all my old pictures of St Luke's to see what is in shot which may give me some indication of what may have stood there and whether it is different to that of today's buidings.