Slavery and Liverpool

[Ged]

When Muslims (who traded slaves long before and long after anyone in Britain, who after all, were behind the abolition in the end) and when Romans (who threw Christians to the lions) apologise, then so will I - maybe. But as Steve says, it won't be on behalf of any of my ancestors so it'll be hollow.

It's also interesting to note that a scholar who rang into Radio Merseyside pointed out that Liverpool's trade wealth with Ireland and the Isle of Man (of all places) far outweighed any profits made from the slave trade at the time. Source: LRO (A project apparently undertaken by him when told by an angry slave protester to go and get his facts straight)

What worries me is - what follows?

Is it the blaim claim again. And who do we make the cheque out to?

[Ged]

Blame even

[SteveFaragher]

I think we also had a lot of trade with north germany and the baltic too, (after all that's were Lob Skause came from) it would be interesting to see what the percentages of trade from 1700 to 1900 with different parts of the world were, especially after 1807, anyone know?

[SteveFaragher]

Maybe the italian government should apologise for killing all the druids on anglesey.....o..but you've got to ask yourself if there was any reparation for the slave trade how on earth would you allocate the compo.

If you are half Irish half African then you've cracked it on both counts, famine and slavery compo.

Im half manx half yorkshire so I wouldnt get a sniff unless I get a trip claim in agaisnt the corpy

[lindylou]

What happened on Anglesey ? I havn't heard about this.

[shytalk]

What happened on Anglesey ? I havn't heard about this.

http://www.anglesey-history.co.uk/anghist.html

[SteveFaragher]

While Boedicea was sacking Colchester the main Roman army was slaughtering the Druids up in sunny north wales, well it had to be done their cooking smelt, they wee stealing all the building jobs, marrying our girls and opening Druid shops, oh sorry that's the Poles.....

[Jericho]

In terms of the original question, I think the whole of history is becoming 'Disneyfied'. Complexity, contradictory versions of the same event, motives of the historian, politics etc are out. Tony Robinson is in.

Son et lumière

Victoria Wood is making the journey Queen Victoria never made.

[Ged]

And now I take it you all know what's happening to a lot of the poles in Scotland?

[MissDemenour]

I doubt it. And even then they'd have to apologise to what they've done to white heterosexual persons as well. I was once a confirmed Christian, but I 'saw the light' and got out. Whilst I don't mind people choosing to believe in something, I hate the way religion can be used to force people into a way of thinking, and into unjust guilt and Christ know's what (ha ha!).

Anyway...

I completely agree with you on this. I stopped being catholic two years ago in favour of a religion with alot less propoganda. I once remember my mum telling me that when she was married she was told to go forth and procreate by the priest. Then once she had her first daughter (my eldest sister) she was expected to go to church, kneel down in front of the whole congregation at the front and beg for forgiveness for her cardinal sin of lust. She was insulted that my dad didn't have to beg for gods forgiveness for his lust.

I still occasionally have pangs of guilt for something that is not wrong or do things certain ways because of my catholic up bringing.

On to slavery. Liverpool actually played quite a small part in the slave trade compared to an awful lot of other places. I don't think we should of been forced to appologise or that we should change street names. Yes a memorial is a good idea because it is something that was wrong and should never happen again but we shouldn't have to grovel for the small part we played as a port which slave ships mainly used just to restock supplies before they went to america.

[snappel]

Only today I was updating my website, this page specifically. It was wierd looking round there. So regimented and strict, every book, poster, notice and piece of artwork was God-related. I think it would be better if kids were put in a totally non-religious school and educated accordingly. Parents should be banned from making their kids go to a religious school. I find it strange now that at my bog-standard comprehensive junior school we had to pray in assembly...

I can see how blissfully ignorant religious people enjoy religion, but most of the time it seems to bring uncertainty, a lack of confidence, individual thought and a whole lot of misery.

Back to slavery, it was interesting reading about the number of people who were used as slaves during WW2 by the Nazi's. Seems a bit closer to home in a way, as it was only 60 years ago. I think it'd be better to look ahead and try and prevent slavery where possible in the future rather than getting hung up on what happened so long ago. Britain moved to abolish slavery - is that not enough?

[knowhowe]

THE country's first museum dedicated to the slave trade will be established in Liverpool.

Thousands of slaves were brought to the city from Africa before crossing the Atlantic to work in the West Indies and North America.

Source

Wonder who got it so wrong- a hack in the local rag or the writer of the press release from the museum itself?
Unforgiveable, whoever it was, considering the subject matter.

[ChrisGeorge]

Hi all

I came across a bizarre ebay listing for a seller who has listed a 1794 Liverpool ship halfpenny for sale.

The listing says "RARE 1794 LIVERPOOL SLAVER'S COIN! HOME OF THE BEATLES!"

At the head of a long long listing about Liverpool's history and culture, which quotes Gerry Marsden's "Ferry Across the Mersey", Beatles links, and other links, the seller states in large glary black and red lettering:

'Dear Ebay,

'Please do not end this listing for an allegedly "misleading headline"!!! This is a Liverpool Half Penny. It is a well-known fact that Liverpool was a major link in the slave trade at the time this coin was issued. The issuer of this coin, Thomas Clarke, was engaged in the Slave trade. This can be verified at: http://www.merchantnetworks.com.au/p...laversbrit.htm Therefore, it is not misleading to call the issuer a "slaver". Thank you.

'LUCKY HALF PENNY from LIVERPOOL
FERRY CROSS THE MERSEY

Life goes on day after day
Hearts torn in every way. . . '

I have no way of knowing without researching whether Thomas Clarke was or was not a slaver or whether the seller has the right Thomas Clarke but it seems to me this ebay seller is doing Liverpool an injustice in both making hay out of Liverpool's connection with slavery while also building up the city as the City of Culture.

As I say, it just comes across to me as a strange listing. See what you think.

Chris

[taffy]

Not heard of this before. here's some more info

http://www.abccoinsandtokens.com/DH.Lancs.062.001.html

[ChrisGeorge]

Not heard of this before. here's some more info

http://www.abccoinsandtokens.com/DH.Lancs.062.001.html

Thanks, Taffy. That site says,

"Thomas Clarke was a grocer living at 12, Cable Street, and had a warehouse at No. 4, Marshall Street in Liverpool."

If Thomas Clarke was a grocer could he have been a slave trader as well? I am not sure, although of course many merchants of the day had interests in a number of enterprises.

All the best

Chris