Shops underneath Church street

[knowhowe]

Brilliant. All of you should get it now!

[PhilipG]

There was certainly a warren of subterranean streets under Exchange Flags, containing homes and shops. This is recorded in some detail by Herman Melville (of Moby **** reknown) in, I think, his youthful work, Redburn, His First Voyage (1849).
A wonderful book, incidentally, that recalls the author's adventures crossing the Atlantic as a poverty-stricken boy sailor in 1837 and spending six weeks, while his ship was berthed in prince's Dock, wandering the streets of Liverpool and writing in great detail of all he experienced. One of the finest books about Liverpool I know and highly recommended reading- but I don't know if, unlike his better-known stuff, it was ever reprinted in modern times.

Thanks to Shytalk, I've done a search in "Redburn" for these subterranean streets, with, so far, no luck.
Knowhowe, would you please tell us where we can find the information?
What chapter is it in?
I've also got the Penguin version of the book, if you know the page.
Thanks.

[snappel]

I'd heard stories about stuff underneath Exchange Flags. Wouldn't surprise me, as it was an important trading area - I'm sure there would have been extensive vaults and basements. Now though, it's a carpark isn't it? There's a ventilation shaft that comes up beneath the statue in the middle of the flags.

[PhilipG]

I'd heard stories about stuff underneath Exchange Flags. Wouldn't surprise me, as it was an important trading area - I'm sure there would have been extensive vaults and basements. Now though, it's a carpark isn't it? There's a ventilation shaft that comes up beneath the statue in the middle of the flags.

The car park was built in the 1950s as an early example of an underground car park, when the present Exchange Buildings were erected.
I've never heard that it replaced anything else.
The Town Hall was originally called the Exchange, and the buildings behind are the third to be called Exchange Buildings.
Both Exchange Buildings and the Town Hall, and the Nelson Monument are well documented, but there's never been any mention of anything else underground.

[theninesisters]

The car park was built in the 1950s as an early example of an underground car park, when the present Exchange Buildings were erected.
I've never heard that it replaced anything else.
The Town Hall was originally called the Exchange, and the buildings behind are the third to be called Exchange Buildings.
Both Exchange Buildings and the Town Hall, and the Nelson Monument are well documented, but there's never been any mention of anything else underground.

There is the Ice House under the Town Hall which no one seems to know about. A good friend of mine went in last year and took some pictures, I'll see if he's still got em on E-mail and upload em and exactly where it is.

[Ged]

Frank Carlyles Liverpool unseen dvd shows him under the Town Hall but the tunnels seem to have been capped off/bricked up.

[ChrisGeorge]

There was certainly a warren of subterranean streets under Exchange Flags, containing homes and shops. This is recorded in some detail by Herman Melville (of Moby **** reknown) in, I think, his youthful work, Redburn, His First Voyage (1849).
A wonderful book, incidentally, that recalls the author's adventures crossing the Atlantic as a poverty-stricken boy sailor in 1837 and spending six weeks, while his ship was berthed in prince's Dock, wandering the streets of Liverpool and writing in great detail of all he experienced. One of the finest books about Liverpool I know and highly recommended reading- but I don't know if, unlike his better-known stuff, it was ever reprinted in modern times.

Hi Steve

Redburn is available as a cheaply available modern paperback from Penguin or Doubleday. I have a copy. It is also available as a free ebook from Gutenberg.

Chris

[knowhowe]

Hmm, yes. My mistake, it seems re the reference appearing in Redburn. I was sure it did, but having (yet again) picked it up to check- and inevitably getting hopelessly distracted by the wealth of wonders it contains- I, too, can't find the reference. I will, however, resume the root through my 'old Liverpool' library to find it, never fear.
It was certainly in a period novel, with part of the action involving a visit to this subterranean community and the author expressing his amazement at the number of people and building existing down there...

[Gnomie]

I heard there was one underneath Lime street and it my of gone to a pub in the scotland road area called The Pie Shop. anyone know of this pub?

[bigpab]

I heard that there was a street underneath lime street station. And a tunnel that runs from the Pier Head to walton Jail I believe it was something to do with the slave trade.

[Ged]

I heard there was one underneath Lime street and it my of gone to a pub in the scotland road area called The Pie Shop. anyone know of this pub?

The pie shop was the nickname for the Byrom, only demolished 18 months or so ago. I don't know of any tunnels under it but someone could be getting confused with the nearby Waterloo tunnel which was just 50 yards away from it and ran from Waterloo dock up to Edge Hill.

[TheBandit]

[QUOTE=theninesisters;26325]Far less known is a tunnel that is rumoured to run from St Georges hall to the statue at the bottom of London Road - this was mentioned by an old guide but nothing seems to have been looked in to.[QUOTE]

I worked in St Georges hall during the recent restoration an can confirm there is a tunnel running towards the docks, i have seen it as it was somewhere to go for a smoke break! It is blocked up and has been for years i was told. This tunnel was massive an i was told it had something to do with slaves that were brought into the country but as the trade had been abolished in 1807 and hall competed in 1854 i didnt beleive this explanation any more information would be appreciated.

[Cadfael]

[QUOTE=TheBandit;74211][QUOTE=theninesisters;26325]Far less known is a tunnel that is rumoured to run from St Georges hall to the statue at the bottom of London Road - this was mentioned by an old guide but nothing seems to have been looked in to.

I worked in St Georges hall during the recent restoration an can confirm there is a tunnel running towards the docks, i have seen it as it was somewhere to go for a smoke break! It is blocked up and has been for years i was told. This tunnel was massive an i was told it had something to do with slaves that were brought into the country but as the trade had been abolished in 1807 and hall competed in 1854 i didnt beleive this explanation any more information would be appreciated.

I too have heard of this tunnel from a person that knows the Hall and surroundings like the back of their hand, although they mentioned the tunnel from the Hall to the Statue, not leading towards the docks.

There is also another little known underground section underneath the Liverpool Empire. A massive stone archway, spanning about 40ft can be found in the basement area for anyone lucky enough to find an excuse to go down. My friend was working on the electrics there and had a good nose around.

[PhilipG]

[QUOTE=Cadfael;74213][QUOTE=TheBandit;74211]

Far less known is a tunnel that is rumoured to run from St Georges hall to the statue at the bottom of London Road - this was mentioned by an old guide but nothing seems to have been looked in to.

I too have heard of this tunnel from a person that knows the Hall and surroundings like the back of their hand, although they mentioned the tunnel from the Hall to the Statue, not leading towards the docks.

There is also another little known underground section underneath the Liverpool Empire. A massive stone archway, spanning about 40ft can be found in the basement area for anyone lucky enough to find an excuse to go down. My friend was working on the electrics there and had a good nose around.

I don't mean to sound like a cynic.
Hopefully more like the voice of reason, but it's interesting that agreement can't be reached on some tunnels.
The 40ft arch under the Empire sounds about the right width to have something to do with the stage.
The present 1925 building was built on the site of an 1866 theatre and the original side wall remains next to where the Legs of Man was, and presumably the cellars/basement area remains.

[Cadfael]

[QUOTE=PhilipG;74214][QUOTE=Cadfael;74213]

I don't mean to sound like a cynic.
Hopefully more like the voice of reason, but it's interesting that agreement can't be reached on some tunnels.
The 40ft arch under the Empire sounds about the right width to have something to do with the stage.
The present 1925 building was built on the site of an 1866 theatre and the original side wall remains next to where the Legs of Man was, and presumably the cellars/basement area remains.

If we all agreed on what something was or wasn't then there would be no need for a discussion Philip Whatever people assume underground sections to be isn't the main issue, it is the fact that they have been found and recorded is good enough in my book.
I wouldn't touch the Williamson's Tunnels theory of 'are they tunnels or roads' as you have to define what a road actually is. Certainly there is documentation of two horse drawn carriages passing side by side in an entrance to the Williamsons Tunnels!