Myrtle Street

[Ged]

This was the very religious sounding Church of the Holy Innocents. Built in 1854, it was the Church attached to the two nearby orphanages, orphan street still exists in the area.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


The boys orphanage in 1885



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


The girls orphanage in 1885



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


When these poor souls passed away, many were buried in St James cemetery at the foot of the Anglican Cathedral.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Then in 1934 with a mass slum clearance and rehousing programme scheduled, along came the wrecking ball for the building of Myrtle Gardens.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

When the council were demolishing or selling off these tenements in the 1980s, part of Myrtle Gardens were bought by Barratts who converted them into student accommodation, renaming them Minster Court.

This is my own pic taken just after the conversion.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


I have a lot more of around this area including damage during wartime which resulted in loss of lives, desolation before the renovation, a festival being held within the square and a bommie night scene as well as general photos of the street and its other properties - all to come later.

[davemed]

Nice Pics Ged.

[collegepudding]

Good post Ged.

The Orphans Grave Stones shown from St James 's Cemetery each have about 2 dozen names on each one. Any ideas if each group were all buried in the same plot, and if so how would they get that many coffins into it, presuming ,of course they were interred within coffins.
in the Refurbished Minster Court shot of Myrtle Gardens it looks like they have been lowered by one storey, , Am a seeing that correct.
I seem to recall from somewhere ,that a corner of that building was taken out by bombing in the Blitz , but was rebuilt .Looking forward to the development of this interesting Thread. Thanks !

collegepudding

[goldenface]

Yes, it has been taken down a floor as the South West corner also suffered from a huge fire and was permanently damaged, I think it was early 80's.

Also, Minster Court is a private dwelling as far as I know - not student accommodation. Quite a close little community it is too, from what I've heard.

[collegepudding]

goldenface, I believe it is quite popular with the Chinese community. There are, as Ged indicated, a fair number of Students who live in the flats, there is also a small development of houses within the complex which forms a more stable community, The last time I was in there ,it appeared to have a facility for a Manned entrance ,via a small gatehouse, but I have never been stopped from entering or leaving. in fact I don't think I have ever seen anyone in the Gatehouse.



collegepudding

[Ged]

Yes it's mixed dwellings now and it's good the way they've incorporated the houses into the development. I will post the fire photo up and some of my recent photos of it including the garden with sculptures etc.
There is a website on it here: http://www.minstercourt.org.uk/myrtl..._liverpool.htm

[grekko]

Good post Ged.

The Orphans Grave Stones shown from St James 's Cemetery each have about 2 dozen names on each one. Any ideas if each group were all buried in the same plot, and if so how would they get that many coffins into it, presuming ,of course they were interred within coffins.
in the Refurbished Minster Court shot of Myrtle Gardens it looks like they have been lowered by one storey, , Am a seeing that correct.
I seem to recall from somewhere ,that a corner of that building was taken out by bombing in the Blitz , but was rebuilt .Looking forward to the development of this interesting Thread. Thanks !

collegepudding

The treatment and burial of the Liverpool poor was a matter which was of concern in Victorian days, and the disposal of the dead as described here was probably a similar scene elsewhere:

THE BURIAL OF PAUPERS IN LIVERPOOL
The fortnightly meeting of the Liverpool Workhouse Committee was held yesterday at the workhouse, Brownlow-hill, Mr Hodkinson presiding. There were also present Miss Thorburn, Mrs McElroy, Alderman Rudkin, Messrs King, O'Hara, Burke, Hughes, O'Shea, Peet, Rathbone, Laurence, Woodcock, Sparling, Coffey, Geating, Moss, Kelly, O'Niel, Brady, Bolger, Gillmoore and T Salter. The routine business having been transacted.
Mr Moss said he had a few remarks to make. He visited the Anfield Cemetery on Monday last, when the pauper funerals take place, and was greatly surprised to find that the Catholic paupers were buried in a stone quarry, and on making further inquiries he found that the Protestant paupers were buried at Rice-lane, Walton, in soil graves. He should like to know why such a distinction should be made between one class of paupers and another. It was neither right nor fair. He saw a large tract of land where the Catholic community buried their dead, where the funerals took place in soil graves, and they had not to resort to the stone quarry. One of the Catholic members of the Select Vestry was, he believed, one of the members of the Anfield Burial Board, but he could not have very much sympathy for his poor co-religionists, or he would not allow such a state of things to go on. Catholic paupers should be interred in soil graves, instead of stone quarries - similar to what was done with regard to Protestant paupers. One of his colleagues was a witness to what he had described, and he agreed with him that it was very inhuman that a class should be subjected to such unnecessary degradation. He hoped they would see that some better arrangement was made in the future. He must say that he was completely upset when he went round Anfield Cemetery. Why not let the Catholic paupers be buried in the large tract of land used by the Catholic body, instead of the quarry? HE went down to the quarry and found that it was from 90 to 100 feet below the ground level, and he considered that it was a very great shame for such a thing to occur.
The Chairman: I don't think it is a matter that concerns this board. - Mr Moss: I beg your pardon; I think it is. - The Chairman: Just a moment; take your seat. After we have taken the dead away, and taken them respectably, our duties end there. - Mr Moss: It is not a proper burial place, this stone quarry. - The Chairman: As to where they are buried is outside this committee. - Mr Moss: said he maintained that the Catholic paupers should be buried in soil graves like the Protestants. The Catholic paupers were put in the stone quarry and merely placed there with lime over them to get rid of them as soon as possible. He thought that it was disgraceful that such a thing should be tolerated in a civilised country. - The Clerk (Mr H J Hagger) stated that the whole of the bodies of the deceased poor were recently buried at Walton, in particular graves that Mr Moss seemed to approve of, and it was at a very strong request of the Roman Catholic poor were not buried at Walton. The interments were withdrawn from there and now took place in the Roman Catholic burial ground at Anfield. - Mr Moss: It is not a burial ground; it is a stone quarry. - The Clerk proceeding, said the interments were conducted by the Burial Board, which was specially constituted for the management of the cemetery, and any representation they liked - (Mr Moss: It is disgraceful.) - to make to that body no doubt would receive attention. The transfer of the Roman Catholic burials from Walton to Anfield was by special request. One thing on which Mr Moss was wrong was with regard to a member of the Burial Board. There was no Catholic member of the Select Vestry on the Anfield Board, as he resigned some time ago. - Mr Moss: I give in to that. - The Clerk added that there was, however, one member of the Vestry that was a member of the Burial Board, and that was Mr Jenings. - Mr Peet said that as a churchwarden of that parish he was very sorry that the Roman Catholic burials were taken from Walton, as it was a source of revenue to them; therefore the burials would not have been taken from Walton, had it not been at the special request of the Roman Catholic body. - Mr Moss rose to make some further remarks, when the Chairman interposed, and told him he had already spoken three times. - Mr Moss; Yes and I will speak again; (Hear, hear.) I can't help it. (Laughter.) I will let the outside public know how these poor paupers are buried. - Mr Rathbone said it was no disgrace to be buried there, as a great number of the wealthy people, who had their choice, were buried in what was a quarry, at St James Cemetery. He remembered that being a quarry in his younger days. He, however, sympathised with Mr Moss's feelings that he would rather be buried in soil, and go the way of all flesh naturally. (Hear, hear.) But yet the majority of those who could and did choose their burial ground were buried in vaults, and he wished that that system of burial were put an end to. He should not be buried in that way, because he would not be a nuisance and a danger to those who remained. Therefore, the bodies of him and his wife would be cremated when they died. On that ground, he thought that soil graves were more natural than a quarry, but still there was no disgrace in it. - Mr Woodcock said he did not think that Mr Moss should have brought the matter before the vestry until he has made an inquiry as to whether it was carried out on a basis of equity and justice. - Mr Moss: It is not justice. - Mr Woodcock, continuing remarked that the Roman Catholics wished to have their poor buried there, and how the burials had been carried out depended more on the Burial Board than the Vestry. He thought that some of the Catholic authorities would have found it out if anything so derogatory had been done as Mr Moss had stated. - Alderman Rudkin said that as far as he was personally concerned, so long as he was buried in consecrated ground, he did not care whether it was in a quarry or in clay. It was immaterial to him if he knew that he was on the right road, and the straight way to Heaven. - Mr Peet said he should like to know if the Catholics had any grievance or whether Mr O'Shea said he had not seen the ground, but they were thankful to Mr Moss for bringing the question forward. If hundreds f bodies tumbled over one another he certainly did think it objectionable. Mr Moss: Ten on top of each other. - Mr O'Shea said he did not think ten too many. He certainly found no objections to rock instead of earth graves. He preferred the rock to earth, but he found a fault with the Vestry as to giving their credence in that matter, - Mr Burke asked if the question could not be adjourned until Mr Philip Smith was preset, as he should like Mr Smith to be there. - Mr Hagger had relieved his mind, and the Catholics had heard Mr Moss's tale. - Mr Moss: It is no tale; there is no tale about it. - Mr Laurence, continuing added that now that the Catholics had heard what Mr Moss had to say, they could make their own inquiries, and bring the question forward again if they thought fit. - Mr Gearing said he had heard that some of the relatives of the poor had not been altogether satisfied with the way in which there relatives had been buried. He did believe that they had some cause of complaint if the bodies were being used for filling up a quarry, and he thought that they should pay a visit to the cemetery and see what was taking place. - The Chairman: Is it your pleasure that we go on with the next business? - Several members: Yes. - The matter then dropped.

LIVERPOOL MERCURY 4th October 1895

[collegepudding]

Good post Grekko.
Despicable isn't it the way the poor were treated in times gone by.

The point I am trying to make is. those grave stones must be Memorial stones because they are sited directly next to each other ,but stating they represent about 2 dozen bodies each, That many bodies couldn't be buried in a tract about Two foot wide could they ?, unless the grave is a very very deep one or alternatively , a very very long one in front of each stone.

collegepudding

[davemed]

Nice post Grekko and good reading.

[Ged]

Great post grekko. CP, after making some enquiries, I'm none the wiser as to how those Orphans are buried - sorry. It is interesting though, the stones obviously act as markers - it's a lot of bodies.

[GNASHER]

All the stones were moved about when the gardens were set out.I remember when it was laid out as you would think.
Off topic(ish)
Remind me of this post Ged at the mext meet.