Liverpool Old Dock and Custom House

[dazza]

This information has not been published before.*

A map surveyed by Thomas Steers [engineer of the Liverpool's Old Dock] dated 1709.

This map represents the surveying work he did for the owners of Howland Great Wet Dock, Rotherhithe, London, and is possibly the last work [in his own hand] that he did in London before commencing work on the Old Dock, also in 1709. The bottom right of the map shows 1/2 an acre of land that he had assigned to himself.

Interestingly, 'the name 'Norris' also appears on the map. It is indeed Richard Norris, one of the two architects behind Old Dock's conception; the other being Sir Thomas Johnson. At least one of Liverpool's city fathers leased land close to Howland Great Wet Dock, and would have been well aware of it's potential. This dock could hold 120 merchant vessels, Liverpool had planned for 100.

Thomas Steers' map 1709, Rotherhithe [below].*



Howland Great Wet Dock, Rotherhithe, London 1696-1698. The map above refers to the parcel of land lower right of the illustration, dated 1717 [below] which features 'Bedford Street', 'Thames Street' and 'Russel Street' listed on the map.


The difference between the Rothehithe Dock and Liverpool Old Dock, is that Liverpool exploited the commercial potential of the wet dock system by providing warehousing close by, and unloading/ loading the ships whilst in harbour.

Both images courtesy of the City of London Archive.

[Waterways]

Time Team - Old Dock
Time Team -click

[Waterways]

Howland Great Wet Dock was enlarged and renamed Greenland Dock. Unlike the Old Dock, it still exists today, although not in its original form. It initially never had walls being surrounded by trees, meant for refitting East India ships in a constant level of water. The Old Dock had walls and was designed for loading and unloading cargoes - the first dock to do so.




Map of Surrey Commercial Docks, 1921. Greenland Dock is the long dock near the bottom of the map.


The dock today.

Wiki on the dock:
Greenland Dock - London

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&...27595&t=h&z=15

[dazza]

Land leased to Thomas Steers, signed 26th August 1709, for 60 years. 'Bedfort Street', faced the Howland Great Wet Dock, Rotherhithe, London. This suggests that he didn't receive the commission to build Liverpool's Old Dock until after this lease was signed [26th August 1709]. Unless, perhaps, there is a reasonable argument for keeping the land whilst moving to Liverpool? This seems less likely though, since George Sorocold (c. 1668 – c. 1738) and his associate, Henry Huss, had drawn up a plan and estimate for it's construction and had previously visited Liverpool mid 1709. Steer's more likely got the commission afterwards. Incidently, Steers' worked from his own design - for a dock at the mouth of the Pool. Sorocold's earlier plan was thought to be futher inland.




Thomas Steers' signature attached [below] - signed 26th August 1709.

[dazza]

Was is Sorocold who wanted to just dam in the Liver Pool and wall off the side of it, like happened at the Wallasey Pool in making Birkenhead Docks?

If this happened it would have been less work, and less filling, and the docks would have been much larger. The pool went right up to Williamson Square.

It would have meant Liverpool had water in its city centre.

I don't think Sorocold wanted to dam the pool, as was later the case in Birkenhead. I've attached a couple of pages from Peet, writing on the subject. He mentions that after Sorocold had staked out the dock, Steers later 'surveyed and staked out the same closer to the sea', page 8.

Attachments: Thomas Steers, a Memoir, by Henry Peet, 1932, now out of print.

[dazza]

I read somewhere, that the city considered, around the late 1770s/early 1880s, reinstating the pool along Paradise St to Williamson Square as the basements filled up around there as the streams that emptied into the pool still flowed along the same line. The buildings became unstable. I'm not sure if that was the case.

I thought there was a culvert running along the common shore [Paradise street] that emptied into the dock? This was, I think, how Steers' managed the water leakage from the dock, from tide to tide? Also, I read somewhere that this was also a common sewer, and that it was open as well? Although I can't be exactly certain on this - sources?

In any case, I could imagine ground water adding to the water table around the common shore area, later Paradise street. So wouldn't be surprized if it's true that buildings, as well as dealing with subsidence from backfilled land, also suffered from basements flooding.

[Eric The Viking]

Here is a little bit of history for you. My mum lived in a pub called The Flying Dutchman, located on Canning Place on the corner next to the Customs House. She was there during the war, my grandmother rufused to let her and my aunt be evacuated! She remembers the Customs house being bombed and seeing it on fire. She also remembers that pretty much most of the buildings that stretched from the Victoria monument down to the dock along Canning place were lost. The court house sits on part of the site now.

It must have been an extremely frightening experience to be in the middle of all that bombing. She mentioned that they often hid in the pub cellar rather that trying to get to the nearest air raid shelter.

I've often tried to find pictures of the pub but not had much success.

I love hearing my mum's stories of Liverpool and the places that are now long gone.

[wsteve55]

Hi Eric,welcome to Yo! If you try Ged's site,there just might be a pic' of the "Flying Dutchman"!

http://www.inacityliving.piczo.com/?cr=7

[Ged]

There is indeed wsteve, thanks.

Yes, you'll find one there Eric. Good first post

[goldenface]

I apologise if this has been posted already but I wanted to share this link which has a nice description of the old Customs House, and a couple of other areas around the waterfront, which some might find interesting.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/34867...OUSE_LIVERPOOL

Reading the description of the Customs House pains me because it reminds us of how much we lost when we let go of one of our city's greatest buildings.

[Spike]

The Customs House site had a proposal to build a tall skyscraper in 1951. Naturally the city foolishly turned it down. Miraculously a similar design emerged in New York, called the Pan-Am building.

Thank God we never built that.