Warships and Ships at war

[captain kong]

The Lancastria, Cunard Liner, was the biggest disaster at sea in British History.
Death tioll varies but could have been around 6,000 to 7,000
. 9,000 were estimated to have been on board when she was bombed, aroiund 2,400 were estimated to have been saved.
Churchill ordered a complete black out of the sinking, survivors were sworn to secrecy.
I sailed with "Nutty" Curran a fireman and Liverpool boxer when I was on the old Franconia in 1956. He survived by sliding down a rope to the water and his hands were badly burned. went on leave. A week later "Nutty" fought at the Stadium with his burned hands bandaged, hard man. Cunard had given "Nutty" a job for life and he could please himself if he worked or not.
Here is some of the events from a site
SUITE 101.COM


The entire 51st Division of Scottish Highlanders surrendered to Erwin Rommel near Saint-Valery-en-Caux on June 12, 1940. The last open French port, St-Nazaire, became something of a Mecca to these lost legions still trying to escape. The life raft of choice for these men was obvious. Docked at the river port was the 16,243 ton five-decked troopship HMT Lancastria. The ship, a former Cunard cruise liner taken up from trade, was taking all the British troops that could squeeze aboard. Civilian refugees, stranded RAF ground crews and others also crowded aboard.

On June 17, 1940, before the Lancastria could leave coast, a German air strike found her. Luftwaffe Junkers JU-88 bombers dropped a string of armor penetrating bombs on the troopship, swarming with British soldiers like an anthill. Men trapped below decks in cargo holds, passageways, and storage areas had no chance of escape. Only those in exterior cabins with portholes or on the upper most deck even had an opportunity to flee to disaster. The Lancastria ?turned turtle? and rolled over very fast while still in her moorings
[ she was at anchor, Ck.]. Follow on waves of German fighters strafed defenseless British tommies floating among some 1,400 tons of burning fuel oil that had seeped from the Lancastria?s bunkers. Overall losses of have only been estimated due to the fact that no loading manifest was available from the stricken ship. Some unofficial lists count upwards of 9,000 men aboard the ship when it was struck and only 2477 could be accounted for after she rolled. This leaves a simple math worst case scenario of almost 7,000 soldiers and sailors drowned in the harbor. The loss of life at sea can only be rivaled by that of the German troopship Wilhelm Gustloff torpedoed in the Baltic to a Soviet submarine in 1945 with the loss of some 5900 souls. It was the largest single day loss of life to the British Army since the Battle of the Somme.

It should be remembered that the RMS Titanic which perished with 1,517 souls and the RMS Lusitania with the loss of 1198, while tragic, are still muted by the scale of the Lancastria?s sinking.

Winston Churchill, who had proclaimed only days before that the entire British Expeditionary Force in France had been withdrawn through Dunkirk, when confronted with the reports of the loss of life in St-Nazaire, ordered that the event be kept secret. In fact, the Royal Navy?s files on the vessel are classified for one hundred years and will not be open to the public until the year 2040.

[pablo42]

Phew, never even heard of it. They managed to keep the lid on that long enough. Thanks for that Captain.

[brian daley]

This is but one small piece of the Lancastria massacre story as reported at the time. Iwill endeavour to post some more of the original but the system does'nt seem to want to accept it,
BrianD

[brian daley]

I have had to reduce the size of this page(after cutting it in half),but it gives you a small idea of how hard the censors had to work at telling the story while keeping the true horror from the public,
BrianD

[captain kong]

Here is a Ship I sailed on in 1955, M.V. GEORGIC. A brave hard working ship that saw her fair share of battles in WW2. She helped the evacuation of Norway, was at St Nazaire when the Lancastria was bombed.
She was built in 1932, the last of the White Star Liners, a sister of the Britannic. They were built for the New York trade until WW2 started.
After the war she carried on trooping and the carriage of emmigrants to Australia and New Zealand, with a few trips to New York in between.
I sailed on her final voyage to Cape Town to Australia with emmigrants, Australian troops, 2RAR to Malaya and French Foreign Legion from Viet Nam to Algiers and Mersailes, back to Liverpool empty and then on December 15 1955, we took her to the Clyde for scrapping.

GEORGIC.
On 22nd May 1941 the Georgic left the Clyde under the command of Captain A.C. Greig, OBE, RNR, with the 50th Northumberland Division for Port Tewfik, Gulf of Suez. She was part of the convoy which had to be left almost unprotected during the hunt for the Bismarck. She arrived safely on 7th July 1941, but a week later on 14th July she was bombed by German aircraft operating from Crete while at anchor off Port Tewfik, with 800 Italian internees on board. Her fuel oil caught fire and the ammunition exploded in the stern area. The Georgic was gutted and the engine room flooded, but her crew managed to slip the anchor cable and beach the ship on 16th July, half submerged and burnt out.
On the after deck at No5 hatch was a new German tank to be taken to England to be tested, It had been captured in the desert. A barge came alongside and several members of the Norfolk Regiment climbed on board and although they were surrounded by flames and explosians from the ammunition exploding in No.5 Hold they got slings and the derrick and lifted the tank over the side and onto the barge. a few medals were won that day. The flames swept forard through the decks and acommodation and when the fire reached the bridge they had to slide down ropes on the fore part onto the fore deck where they waited for rescue, a young lady, who was being evacuated from Cairo to England with her baby, as the flames advanced to the fore deck she tied her baby to her back and jumped over the bow, when she surfaced her baby was dead. It took a couple of weeks for the ship to cool down sufficiently for anyone to board her. she was a burnt and blackened hulk, Eighteen feet of water in her engine room. Thus started one of the biggest salvage operations ever attempted.
On 14th September 1941 it was decided to salvage the vessel and the hulk was raised on 27th October. The hull was plugged, and on 2nd December the Georgic was taken in tow by the Clan Campbell and the City of Sydney. She reached Port Sudan on 14th December where she was made seaworthy. It had taken 12 days for the tow to cover 710 miles
The Georgic left Port Sudan on 5th March 1942 and was towed by T. & J. Harrison?s Recorder, with the tug St Sampson steering from astern. On the following day a strong north-westerly gale rendered the wallowing Georgic almost unmanageable. The southerly course had to be abandoned and the ships hove to. For five hours the Recorder battled to bring her charge head to wind, and in the process the tug St Sampson was damaged. The tug was rapidly filling with water and slipped her tow rope and drifted down wind. Shortly afterwards she foundered and her crew were picked up by the hospital ship Dorsetshire, which was passing at the time.
For twelve hours the Recorder and the Georgic rode out the gale and then, as the winds abated, cautiously swung back through 180 degrees to resume their course. Meanwhile they were joined by another tug, the Pauline Moller and the British India steamer Haresfield and together they guided their labouring charge past Abu Ail and the islands of the southern Red Sea into the Gulf of Aden, and on to Karachi. The salvage crew responsible for the Georgic lived on board the Recorder and every few days boarded the liner from a motor launch in order to pump out a steady ingress of water.
On 31st March 1942, 26 days out of Port Sudan, the ships arrived off Karachi where the Georgic was taken in hand by eight harbour tugs. The Recorder and her consorts, having covered 2,100 miles with the Georgic, had completed one of the most successful salvage operations of the war. Captain W.B. Wilford of the Recorder was later invested with the OBE.
The Georgic remained at Karachi until 11th December whilst temporary repairs were carried out. She then sailed to Bombay, arriving on 13th December, where she was drydocked for hull cleaning and further repairs. Finally she loaded 5,000 tons of pig iron ballast and on 20th January 1943 the Georgic left Bombay under her own power for Liverpool where she arrived on 1st March, having made the passage at 16 knots. Shortly afterwards she sailed for Belfast, but had to anchor in Bangor Bay until 5th July awaiting a berth. After seventeen months the Georgic emerged on 12th December 1944 with one funnel and a stump foremast. She was now owned by the Ministry of Transport, with Cunard-White Star as managers. After trials, the Georgic left Belfast for Liverpool on 16th December 1944, three years and five months since she was bombed at Port Tewfik.
During 1945 the Georgic trooped to Italy, the Middle East and India. On Christmas Day she arrived at Liverpool with troops from the Far East, including General Sir William Slim, C-in-C South East Asia

Photos,
1 Georgic burning at Suez, 2 Georgic after WW2 3 Georgic on Maiden Voyage 1932, 4 Georgic Sunk at Suez.

[pablo42]

Nice one Captain.

[brian daley]

This poster is as old as me, from 1942 it depicts one the terrible convoys that our men in the Merchant Navy took to deliver war goods to the USSR. One of our late, and much missed members, Bob Fairley (Roccija) was a veteran of several such convoys.Sadly ,he never told his story,but the posters conveys the spirit of the times. Thank god for men such as he.
BrianD

[pablo42]

Great stuff Brian. The Russian convoys went through something else as far as I know. I spoke to quite a few guys that were on those convoys and their stories were unreal.

[wsteve55]

Just sailing to somewhere like Murmansk seemed dangerous enough,without being bombed,torpedoed,etc,as well! Was it true they wouldn't/couldn't stop,for men overboard?

[pablo42]

Just sailing to somewhere like Murmansk seemed dangerous enough,without being bombed,torpedoed,etc,as well! Was it true they wouldn't/couldn't stop,for men overboard?

I believe so. I wasn't there of course, but I've heard off many old sailors that when they were torpedoed or set off a mine, the other ships dropped nets for the survivors to grab hold of. This is near on impossible, especially after being in the water. Many times, the RN would drop depth charges after a submarine attack. This had the effect of liquifying the survivors. Their pay was stopped as soon as their feet touched the water. The Battle of the Atlantic went from 1939-45 without a break. Without the Merchant Marine we would certainly have lost the war. We owe them so much.

[wsteve55]

I believe so. I wasn't there of course, but I've heard off many old sailors that when they were torpedoed or set off a mine, the other ships dropped nets for the survivors to grab hold of. This is near on impossible, especially after being in the water. Many times, the RN would drop depth charges after a submarine attack. This had the effect of liquifying the survivors. Their pay was stopped as soon as their feet touched the water. The Battle of the Atlantic went from 1939-45 without a break. Without the Merchant Marine we would certainly have lost the war. We owe them so much.

Just one of the less "glamorous" services,I suppose,but without them,the others wouldn't have had much,if any success!! My mates dad,was on a Murmansk convoy,and he always said how grateful he was,for not getting torpedoed,while on it! He did go on to get sunk 3 times in the Atlantic,but he said at least there, you had a chance of survival!

[pablo42]

Just one of the less "glamorous" services,I suppose,but without them,the others wouldn't have had much,if any success!! My mates dad,was on a Murmansk convoy,and he always said how grateful he was,for not getting torpedoed,while on it! He did go on to get sunk 3 times in the Atlantic,but he said at least there, you had a chance of survival!

Phew, sounds like a brave guy. I honestly don't know why they did it. If war broke out and I was a sailor, I'd have gone into the RN. At least there's a chance to fight back.

Even in the Atlantic, there was virtually no chance for survival if you sank. We were told that if we went into the sea, you had four minutes to live.

If you were in the Merchant Marine, could you not leave the service in wartime.

[captain kong]

Even in the Atlantic, there was virtually no chance for survival if you sank. We were told that if we went into the sea, you had four minutes to live. PABLO.

Hi Pablo, you are right.
I had to go to the inquest, as a winess, on the dead of the `POOL FISHER` that sank thirty years ago next week, 5 November 1979.
The Royal Naval Surgeon Commander gave evidence, he said the survival time in the English Channel in November was around five minutes, all depending on the man`s age and fitness. so I would guess that in the Arctic or North Atlantic it would be considerably less.
Two young lads, Mark Fooks age 17, of Widnes, and Don Crane aged 18 of Wallasey, survived for five hours, The RN Commander said it was remarkable, the fact that they were young, fit, and had plenty of weight on them saved them, tho` they were on the point of death from Hypothermia when rescued by the helicopter.

[pablo42]

Jeez Captain, five hours is a long time. We had a couple who nearly died around Norway who were in dry suits that leaked. Little tiny pin holes let in small quantities of water, yet it was enough. They were young fit guys too. I always done me best to keep out of the water, but it usually meant you got it more. We always got a good soaking when we were working on the North Sea rigs. We were more bothered about the weather there though, than we were the water.

[captain kong]

Hi Pablo,
here is a copy of the quote from the Inquest.............

"Commander Doctor Frances Golden, RN, of the Institute of Survival Medicine, said, ?The two lads who survived were exceptional, they clung to wreckage for over five hours in gale force winds amongst waves 40 feet high.
It was probably their age and fitness that helped them to survive."
unquote.

It was a wild night, the weather was atrocious.

The other 13 people who died probably died from Hypothermia and a few may have died from drowning.
I believe Terry Morgan of Wallasey was trapped after going in the capsized accommodation to rescue the two young lads and drowned inside. He was on deck with a lifejacket on and it was presumed he was trapped after the two lads got out. They had no life jackets on and survived.
Terry Morgan was never acknowledge for his bravery both at the Inquest and at the Court of Inquiry afterwards.
There should be somewhere were a man like that should be given a posthhumous award for his bravery. He could have stayed on deck and save himself.
I read a report from the R.N. that HMS Cardiff picked up a man and woman in an `embrace` both were dead and still clinging together. The woman was Mrs, Doris Carvill, the wife of the Chief Engineer who also died.
Only three bodies were found.
sad event.