Edge Lane Development

[Waterways]

It's true that alot of the houses are in good condition, but it's also true that no-one wants them and they are in the way of creating a much cleaner, greener, safer and prosperous environment. If they stayed they would simply end up getting diced up into cheap flats that would fall into further dereliction plus the road would become ever more congested and dangerous and new facilities couldn't be built.
You have to think ahead, I would love to see the houses kept but only if all the other enhancements could take place as well which they can't. (by the way, the new paving etc is granite, not concrete.

Many of those glazed yellow brick houses are magnificent!!! If restored they will be far better than any modern house - and look better too. The larger can be converted to flats with correct soundproofing added. Many were made into flats in the 1970s. I know I designed the heating and gas installations in many of them. I must admit the conversions were far from ideal, being built down to a price. Current building regs would improve the conversions. They would need to be highly insulated to keep people from fuel poverty.

I don't believe in keeping something because it is just old. Somethings that are old are not worth having. Some things that are old certainly are. We are running out of fine old buildings in Liverpool. 30 years ago the city was full of fine old buildings - the philistines who ran the city since have decimated the place.

If these homes have to go the re-located replacements must look exactly like them. Not some modern attempt at retro-style which never works - exactly like them in glazed brick, etc.

[Cadfael]

Many of those glazed yellow brick houses are magnificent!!! If restored they will be far better than any modern house - and look better too. The larger can be converted to flats with correct soundproofing added. Many were made into flats in the 1970s. I know I designed the heating and gas installations many of them. I must admit the conversions were far from ideal, being built down to a price. Current building regs would improve the conversions. They would need to be highly insulated top keep people from fuel poverty.

I don't believe in keeping something because it is just old. Somethings that are old are not worth having. Some things that are old certainly are. We are running out of fine old buildings in Liverpool. 30 years ago the city was full of fine old buildings - the philistines who ran the city since have decimated the place.

If these homes have to go the re-located replacements must look exactly like them. Not some modern attempt at retro-style which never works - exactly like them in glazed brick, etc.

I'll clap till my hands are sore.

[Waterways]

I'll clap till my hands are sore.

All this city has done, and is still doing, is squander its heritage:

- The miss-placed Arena at the Kings Dock was built on in-filled historic docks - some of it is used for coach parking to bus in outsiders for big companies to make money.
- Princes and Princes half-tide docks are filled in to canal boat depths precluding deep water vessels.
- Cases Street, one of the city's oldest streets was demolished for a tacky shopping mall.
- demolition of the warehouses at Waterloo Dock (half are left and desirable flats now)
- Countless 200 year old warehouses were bulldozed, which could have made fine "solid" apartments.
- the demolition of the old palladium warehouses at Dukes Dock (cars park there now)
- etc
- etc

[Ged]

The Customs House and Sailors Home could have been saved and the overhead renovated. What attractions they could be now in 08.

[Howie]

Do Edge Lane up, don't knock it down
Jan 24 2008
by Laura Sharpe, Liverpool Echo



IT COULD cost 10 times as much to demolish homes on Liverpool’s Edge Lane than refurbish them, a public inquiry was told.

Academics speaking against a compulsory purchase order to demolish 70 Victorian homes for a new gateway into Liverpool said refurbishment was the best option because it was cheaper and more environmentally friendly.

More...

[Waterways]

The Customs House and Sailors Home could have been saved and the overhead renovated. What attractions they could be now in 08.

The Customs House? A St. Paul's Cathedral lookalike. If in London it would have been renovated.

The David Lewis Building. The old St John's market and all the buildings and small squares around. The decimation of the Georgian houses around Upper Parliament St. A whole Georgian sector was obliterated!!!! Only a small amount survive. We can all go on and on and on.

[jimmy]

News




Edge Lane demolition "10 times more expensive" than restoring areaJan 24 2008




by Laura Sharpe, Liverpool Daily Post




IT COULD cost 10 times as much to demolish homes on Liverpool’s Edge Lane than refurbish them, a public inquiry heard yesterday.

Academics speaking against a Compulsory Purchase Order to demolish 70 Victorian homes to create a new gateway into Liverpool said refurbishment was the best option because it was cheaper and more environmentally friendly.

In total 370 homes will be demolished, 300 of which have already been acquired.

During a day where objec-tors asked English Partnerships, the proposers of the plan, to think beyond policy set in black and white, three experts put forward alternative visions for one of the city’s main gateways.



Doctor Jason Palmer, who has conducted research for the Energy Trust on home efficiency, said carbon diox-ide produced during demolition would be equivalent to the amount produced by 4,000 homes over a year.


He said each new home would generate 9,200 tonnes of CO2 compared to 1,533 from the existing homes.


He said his research into sustainable construction led him to believe, with social aspects aside, that refurbish-ment was best for biodiversity, environment and climate change. He said based on research, it was 10 times cheaper to refurbish a house than to build a new one. The claims were contested by Christopher Lockhart-Mummery, a barrister representing English Partnerships.


Cross examining, Mr Lockhart-Mummery said the outline planning permission was for eco homes which would offset the amount of CO2 used to build them within 12 years, giving over 88 years of energy efficiency.


He also countered claims on biodiveristy saying a study revealed negligible ecological value in the area.


Many of the homes will have substantial gardens instead of the existing rear paved yards, which would aid biodiversity.


But Professor Anne Power, who has been involved with housing market renewal and regeneration across the world, said: “It is invariably quicker and cheaper to refurbish than demolish in terms ofrebuilding the property and infrastructure.”


She said a 2003 report put the cost of demolition to the public purse at £17,000-£35,000 and she estimated the cost to replace infrastructure per demolished home to be £35,000.


Concentrating on the “massive social impact” Professor Power spoke on the displacement of vulnerable people and increased crime and vandalism during clearance programmes. She also spoke on the need to tame traffic and think “avant-guard” in planning, following the example of US cities where they are pulling down roads and putting communities first.


The inquiry continues.

[Howie]

Tears as homes crusader tells inquiry of residents’ heartache
Jan 25 2008
by Laura Sharpe, Liverpool Daily Post

A TEARFUL pensioner who is fighting to save houses from the bulldozer told a public inquiry yesterday of the heartache of some residents who had already been forced to leave their homes.

Elizabeth Pascoe said she had taken up the battle to save people’s homes in Liverpool’s Edge Lane and recounted the moving stories of residents affected by the demolition plans.

Mrs Pascoe, a member of Better Environmental Vision for Edge Lane (Bevel) which is opposed to the land acquisition, said many of her friends and neighbours had felt forced to hand over their homes.

More...

[Howie]

Major new setback to Liverpool’s Edge Lane plans
Mar 14 2008
by Ben Schofield, Liverpool Daily Post

THE Government’s leading design advisors have condemned plans to transform a key gateway into Liverpool, the Daily Post can reveal.

Cabe, the Commission for Architecture and the Built Environment, has rubbished the scheme to redevelop Edge Lane in a letter to Liverpool council planners.

Cabe refused to support the proposals because they would not meet key objectives. CABE believes the project, part of a £350m masterplan, will not transform the housing stock and renew the property market as intended.

Nor, it claims, will it improve the entrance “gateway” into the city, a key objective of the multi-million pound scheme. It says developers should think again and urged councillors to throw out the planning application.

Cabe is statutory consultee on large developments.

The letter was sent in response to an application to the council by Bellway Homes to build 210 replacement homes.

But the proposed houses are “generic and unremarkable” and the plans repeat “familiar mistakes of unsuccessful housing estates”, the letter says.

Some houses on the estate will have a “bleak outlook” and “limited private gardens”.

Cabe also lambasted the plan for being of inferior quality for such a major application.

The litany of criticism has led a senior councillor to question why the developer did not consult more closely with Cabe to get approval.

And objectors to the project say the letter vindicates their long-term opposition.

Developer Liverpool Land Development Company says it will now work with Bellway to address Cabe’s concerns.

The Edge Lane West scheme was the subject of a public inquiry that closed at the end of last month.

National regeneration agency English Partnerships and LLDC are pursuing a compulsory purchase order to buy up almost 70 properties along the route.

If the CPO is confirmed by the inquiry, those properties would be knocked down with almost 300 others to make way for a wider dual carriageway deeper into Liverpool.

While Cabe agreed with the principle of giving the entrance corridor a facelift, it said widening the road was not the only way to do it.

Cabe’s design review advisor, Menaka Sahai, wrote: “Whilst the intention to widen the highway in this section could be one way of enhancing the journey into Liverpool, we do not think that it is the only way to achieve this aim.

“We urge the local planning authority and their highway department to continue to explore all alternatives and put forward a convincing case for highway widening.”

The letter went on to lament the “loss to the built environment” that would occur if the houses are demolished.

The advisor continued: “We are thoroughly disappointed to see that the design team appear to have used standard house designs which have not been meaningfully adapted and are as such an unspecific response to the site structure.

“We are not convinced that the widening of the highway, demolition of the existing buildings and the proposed housing will achieve the objectives of the [supplementary planning document] to improve the entrance route into Liverpool and lead to the type of positive transformational change that is fundamental to Housing Market Renewal.

“As it stands, we are unable to support this scheme and think that this planning application should not be given consent.”

Cllr Mike Storey, executive member for regeneration, said Cabe’s denunciation was a “bolt from the blue”.

He added: “I’m disappointed that LLDC didn’t work in harmony with Cabe.

“I don’t know why that hasn’t happened. We need to look at what Cabe is saying and look at if we can address Cabe’s concerns.”

Cllr Storey said he stood by the road-widening part of the project, saying the area would remain blighted for at least another decade if the current scheme did not go ahead.

But he said people only needed to look at the “crazy housing schemes of the 60s and 70s” to know how damaging poorly planned developments can be.

“We can be more choosey about design – we don’t take any old rubbish that comes along and can go for quality rather than quantity.”

Elizabeth Pascoe, a leading community campaigner and staunch opponent of LLDC’s proposals, said: “It’s exactly what we said – people said they didn’t want to live in apartments and certainly don’t want to live in rabbit huts that are half the size.”

Ian Hassall, chief executive of LLDC, said: “We welcome Cabe’s endorsement of the area-wide regeneration aims of the Edge Lane West scheme, and their support for the planning policy for this area.

“Cabe’s comments concerning the detailed design of the scheme will be fed back to Bellway’s design team for consideration. We will work with Bellway to address the areas of concern.”

A Liverpool City Council spokesperson said: “Cabe’s views, along with any other comments, will be taken into account when the committee looks at the planning application.”

No-one from Bellway Homes was available for comment.

Source: Liverpool Daily Post

[Howie]

Road saga that won’t go away
Mar 14 2008
by Toby Chapman, Liverpool Daily Post

THE saga of redeveloping Edge Lane is one which simply refuses to come to an end. Liverpool City Council, English Partnerships and developers Liverpool Land Development Company are still reeling at being thwarted in their aims by battling pensioner Elizabeth Pascoe.

Now the Government’s own advisor on architecture, design and public space has expressed its opinion on the scheme – and its views support those of local campaigners.

Cabe – the Commission for Architecture and Built Environment – is concerned by the regeneration proposals for Edge Lane West.

The Commission says it appreciates the need to improve such a key gateway to Liverpool. But it does not favour the plan to widen Edge Lane and insists alternatives must be investigated.

And, in a further d*mning conclusion, Cabe not only supports Mrs Pascoe’s claim that the 370 houses earmarked for demolition by Liverpool planners would be needless victims of the wrecking ball, but adds: “We think that the demolition of these buildings will be a loss to the built environment of Edge Lane.”

So it is fairly clear where the body which has the Government’s ear on planning matters stands on this topic.

What is less certain is where this leaves the Edge Lane redevelopment.

A city council spokesperson says Cabe’s views will be considered when the committee meets to discuss the planning application.

But what will the committee make of Cabe’s claims of “fundamental problems” and “sub-standard” levels of design with the scheme?

The Battle of Edge Lane was launched by residents unwilling to give up their much loved homes without a fight.

Perhaps Liverpool will one day have reason to be grateful to Mrs Pascoe and her supporters.

The delays they have brought about may well lead to a higher quality gateway for the city – one achieved without the loss of nearly 400 homes.

Source: Liverpool Daily Post

[AK1]

It seems pretty obvious from the reports today that although cabe approve of what the scheme is trying to do, they are not happy with the quality of the new housing and the way they will be laid out. It would be very easy for LLDC to add some ammendments to the application which would see major changes to the quality of materials used and the lay out of the housing.
These comments from cabe aren't actually that damaging. They approve of the schemes intentions and recognise the need for new, modern housing and don't object to the demolition of the houses.

[geoffrey]

... and don't object to the demolition of the houses.

erm

the DP report says

The letter went on to lament the “loss to the built environment” that would occur if the houses are demolished.

[Howie]

Govt advisor refuses to support Edge Lane scheme
Mar 14 2008
Ben Schofield



THE Government’s leading design advisors have condemned plans to transform a key gateway into Liverpool.

CABE - The Commission for Architecture and the Built Environment, has rubbished the scheme to redevelop Edge Lane in a letter to Liverpool City Council planners.

CABE refused to support the proposals because they would not meet key objectives. CABE believes the project, part of a £350m masterplan, will not transform the housing stock and renew the property market as intended.

Nor, it claims, will it improve the entrance “gateway” into the city, a key objective of the multi-million pound scheme. It says developers should think again and urged councillors to throw out the planning application.

More...

[wallasey]

Just heard a advert on Radio City...

"With local traders"

"Edge Lane looks even better than it did before"

I am still gobsmaked.

[christy]

Does anyone have any links to images or plans for the north view/west derby street/hall lane by pass section. Or any info on what is meant to be happening development/landscape wise?
Searched the thread and edge lane development site but cant find anything of any detail.
thanks in advance.