Capital of Culture Opening 300m eyes on Liverpool

[Libertarian]

Quote To me, the CoC opening ceremony was nothing more than a feeble attempt at justifying all the damage this meaningless title has brought to Liverpool, thanks to the team of incompetents charged with its supervision. The Capital of Culture team have managed to finish the work Hitler's mob started back in the 1940s. Between all the different construction contractors and redevelopment agencies, half of the city's architectural heritage has been demolished to build DROSS in its place

Like Paradise street where the architectural gems such as the Moat House Hotel and the 60's bus station have been demolished. A very tacky street. Or Whitechapel ok a very bland mall has been built but its an improvement on the tacky 70's post office with mirrors on the front.

[mimng]

John, the member in question mimng, shares the same IP address as another member called 'Jon' who I'm still waiting hear from, I had earlier posted a message in error with the name spelt 'John'. Thats probably the misunderstanding.

i connect to the internet via my mobile phone, which is a t-mobile contract phone, on the web n walk plus plan. i can guarantee i have never ever posted to this board prior to my original post. if someone else posts from the same IP address as me, then i can only surmise that they must have broken into my flat, stolen my mobile phone, connected to the internet with it, created some virtual alter-ego for themselves called 'Jon' on this purile website, and then replaced my mobile phone EACH AND EVERY TIME THEY POSTED!

the other only possible explanation is my girlfriend is the person behind the profile called 'Jon', which is also highly unlikely!

there is one more explanation of course....IP addresses are not always static and in fact, in some cases, change each time a person logs on to the internet. so please will people accept that i am an original person with opinions who wanted to express them - now will you please concentrate on what it is i had to say, instead of questioning the validity of my existence and seeming to reduce all the opinions of people who think CoC is a joke down to one rogue person creating multiple identities. people have different opinions - accept it!

i wholly appreciate the post from mr mcmoof, it shows that, lo, there are more of us! more people who can think for themselves and see through propaganda.

i went to the docks today to see the turner prize before they packed it away. high art isnt really for me, but it is good that it was here. however, the thought struck me as i looked at all the building work, providing the new shopping 'mall' on the other side of the strand - what is the point of more shops? what can you not already buy in liverpool? there's already two of most shops in the city centre, do we need to add a third argos, a third cex? surely not. chavasse park was the last bit of greenery left in the city centre. now there is none. who really thinks this is a good idea??

[Kev]

....created some virtual alter-ego for themselves called 'Jon' on this purile website,

Pardon?

[Libertarian]

i connect to the internet via my mobile phone, which is a t-mobile contract phone, on the web n walk plus plan. i can guarantee i have never ever posted to this board prior to my original post. if someone else posts from the same IP address as me, then i can only surmise that they must have broken into my flat, stolen my mobile phone, connected to the internet with it, created some virtual alter-ego for themselves called 'Jon' on this purile website, and then replaced my mobile phone EACH AND EVERY TIME THEY POSTED!

the other only possible explanation is my girlfriend is the person behind the profile called 'Jon', which is also highly unlikely!

there is one more explanation of course....IP addresses are not always static and in fact, in some cases, change each time a person logs on to the internet. so please will people accept that i am an original person with opinions who wanted to express them - now will you please concentrate on what it is i had to say, instead of questioning the validity of my existence and seeming to reduce all the opinions of people who think CoC is a joke down to one rogue person creating multiple identities. people have different opinions - accept it!

i wholly appreciate the post from mr mcmoof, it shows that, lo, there are more of us! more people who can think for themselves and see through propaganda.

i went to the docks today to see the turner prize before they packed it away. high art isnt really for me, but it is good that it was here. however, the thought struck me as i looked at all the building work, providing the new shopping 'mall' on the other side of the strand - what is the point of more shops? what can you not already buy in liverpool? there's already two of most shops in the city centre, do we need to add a third argos, a third cex? surely not. chavasse park was the last bit of greenery left in the city centre. now there is none. who really thinks this is a good idea??

How was the opening ceremony 'propaganda' Chavasse park is not going a new park is going to be developed in the new development. As for the new development I too think we have a glut of shops and it is worrying that shopping is the number one leisure activity now. However, I do appreciate that this development is going to creat thousands of jobs for local people, I remember the hungry 80's in Liverpool and if someone had told me that all this investment and work was gonna be created here then I would have thought it impossible. Do you want to go back to the early 80's when Yosser famously walked around a silted up Albert Dock remember how bad it was? Or today when we are hosting the Turner prize at that location? By the way thats not high art its modernism.

[mimng]

Pardon?

purile - because administrators who should know better accuse people of creating alter-egos, when this clearly hasnt happened.

[mimng]

apologies - puerile. spelling mistake, just like my name!

[Kev]

purile - because administrators who should know better accuse people of creating alter-egos, when this clearly hasnt happened.

You could have avoided this misunderstanding by introducing yourself, tell us a bit about yourself as most people do. It tends to breaks the ice with members.

[mimng]

How was the opening ceremony 'propaganda' Chavasse park is not going a new park is going to be developed in the new development. As for the new development I too think we have a glut of shops and it is worrying that shopping is the number one leisure activity now. However, I do appreciate that this development is going to creat thousands of jobs for local people, I remember the hungry 80's in Liverpool and if someone had told me that all this investment and work was gonna be created here then I would have thought it impossible. Do you want to go back to the early 80's when Yosser famously walked around a silted up Albert Dock remember how bad it was? Or today when we are hosting the Turner prize at that location? By the way thats not high art its modernism.

im glad we agree about the shops. however, if chavasse park is still gonna be there, its gonna be a lot smaller, and in the shadow of a giant shopping mall. personally from looking at the area today i cannot see how it is possible. however, like all my earlier posts, i would love to stand corrected on any issues ive raised, so i'll be the first to admit i was wrong if a beautiful chavasse park is open by the end of the year.

as to the hungry 80s, i agree the albert dock looks much better now that big business has intervened. it mustbe great for the rich people who live there. shame about the suburbs of the city, where most people actually live of course.

the opening ceremony wasnt propaganda per se - i was alluding to the earlier post about plastic culture, and people accepting what is dealt to them without thinking about who benefits from all this. scousers or business? scousers more than business? or business more than scousers?

i argue any scouse happiness will only be a by-product of business profit, and that is my final thought on the matter. if we cant agree on this, then we are never going to.

again - thanks for the freedom of speech.

[mimng]

You could have avoided this misunderstanding by introducing yourself, tell us a bit about yourself as most people do. It tends to breaks the ice with members.

apologies. i did not want to offend, i only intended to post once and then probably wouldnt have come back. but people seemed to be angry that i was somone else! of course, im not.

as an adminstrator, you should beware the idea of looking up peoples IP addresses to find things out about them - maybe you should speak to them civilly before publicly accusing of things you do not know about.

[Libertarian]

im glad we agree about the shops. however, if chavasse park is still gonna be there, its gonna be a lot smaller, and in the shadow of a giant shopping mall. personally from looking at the area today i cannot see how it is possible. however, like all my earlier posts, i would love to stand corrected on any issues ive raised, so i'll be the first to admit i was wrong if a beautiful chavasse park is open by the end of the year.

as to the hungry 80s, i agree the albert dock looks much better now that big business has intervened. it mustbe great for the rich people who live there. shame about the suburbs of the city, where most people actually live of course.

the opening ceremony wasnt propaganda per se - i was alluding to the earlier post about plastic culture, and people accepting what is dealt to them without thinking about who benefits from all this. scousers or business? scousers more than business? or business more than scousers?

i argue any scouse happiness will only be a by-product of business profit, and that is my final thought on the matter. if we cant agree on this, then we are never going to.

again - thanks for the freedom of speech.

You make some interesting and correct points. As far as i'm aware the new park is gonna be on top of an underground carpark. I don't know if it's gonna be bigger or smaller but my guess is that it will be smaller for financial reasons. However, my memories of Chavasse park are those simply of a field more than anything that didn't look particularly attractive and was overlooked by empty offices and the Moat House.

True it is big business that has regenerated the Albert Dock and I could not afford to live there but I have found much happiness in browsing through the free public galleries on many occasions, galleries that have brought the maritime history of the area to public attention, slavery, modern art, the beatles, and liverpools history.

Totally true that little is being done for the capital of culture in outlying areas and you are right to question who benefits in the end from the city's regeneration.

[Kev]

as an adminstrator, you should beware the idea of looking up peoples IP addresses to find things out about them - maybe you should speak to them civilly before publicly accusing of things you do not know about.

I didn't accuse you of anything, I just mentioned that the ip addy was shared with another member, unless I've posted something I've forgotten about.

[lindylou]

purile - because administrators who should know better accuse people of creating alter-egos, when this clearly hasnt happened.

It HAS happened before and that is the reason why admins are suspicious of alter-egos.

This time may have been a misunderstanding, but apart from anything else, I personally take offence to your arrogant remark that this is a puerile forum.
That is an insult to the hard work that has gone into creating this site, and an insult to the members.

I doubt if you will be very welcome after a remark like that.

That is MY opinion thankyou very much.

[Howie]

There's no pleasing some people,sometimes I get the impression that even people from Liverpool want it to fail so they can all say I told you so when they're in the pub.One thing this city does produce more than any other is the ability to moan none stop about everthing,if there was a title for that we'd hold that aswell.

Start at the top
Jan 14 2008
by Larry Neild, Liverpool Daily Post

I WISH I had a quid for everybody I have heard these last two weeks berating the moaners and groaners allegedly dragging down Liverpool’s name.

We are all supposed to fly the flag for Liverpool in its Culture year, and keep schtum about any of the problems lurking in the background. Those who fail to abide by this decree are the equivalent of traitors, and need to be incarcerated in the old Dale Street Bridewell until January 1, 2009.

Even the Bishop of Liverpool has called for an end to the bickering. Well, yes, we should all pull together for the sake of our great city in its greatest year.

So how about starting with our politicians and highly-paid officials? Don’t see many signs there of happy-hugging and cross-party cheerleading.

Neither, it seems, does the District Auditor, Tim Watkinson. He is the man who keeps a careful watch on what’s happening in our town halls.

His latest report, presented to a committee of elected councillors last week, makes illuminating reading. He has told Liverpool City Council that it needs to improve its governance arrangements, in particular the way in which the elected councillors and senior officers work together to deliver the vision and services for Liverpool.

He adds that, despite some encouraging signs of recognition of the need for improvements, he says he has not been persuaded that there has been the required shift in culture to one of shared ownership and joint problem solving. Doesn’t fill you with confidence that things down at the town hall are hunky-dory.

Indeed, the council had to hire barristers – at council taxpayers’ expense – just to draw up legal papers to lay down on how the council and the council-owned Culture Company engage with each other.

Watkinson highlights the importance of councillors, whatever the colours of their rosettes, to work together with officers to sort out the big budget for 2008. Many of the so-called moaners and groaners are critical friends, people who have the best interests of the city at heart.

Difficult decisions need to be taken in 2008, and priorities may have to be re-assessed, says the DA.

So the people moaning about the moaners should concentrate on playing their part to work together for the sake of the city, and perhaps their new-found togetherness will rub off on the rest of us.

Sadly, I fear the politicians will have their sights firmly fixed on the May elections, so it is hard to see one of those “Peace in Our 08 Time” declarations being waved about.

The population of Liverpool will then have its say on what they think of the way they have been governed. I can hardly wait to see what happens to the political landscape of Liverpool in the more important year ever for the city.

Source: Liverpool Daily Post

Thank you very much Larry - this really did need saying!

[Ged]

On the contrary, I wish I had a quid for all the moaners. Glasgow done very well year on year after its CoC, look at the broader picture, having this will bring in further investment and confidence in the city. Imagine we'd have lost it to Birmingham or Newcastle or whoever, imagine the screams then - why didn't we win it, why couldn't we compete... I wouldn't stand next to some of the doom and gloom merchants for fear of getting wet from that great big black cloud they carry around with them. There are 300+ events this year, in fact you'll see that equates almost one for every day of the coming year. I also can't believe that someone so vociferous didn't know the plans for the new park with water features and public areas when visions for it are on practically every forum of this kind in Liverpool.

It was an opening ceromony and that's all, could have been a bit longer in my book and whilst it might not be any harder to play a guitar live on top of the tower or Wellington column than in your front room - you sure need a lot more powerful amp

As long as the people investing time and effort in this year do so with an open mind and vigour (including the spectators) then it will be a success.

[Howie]

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one Ged, but with the council tax collection in the red by £25million, another £20million to find for Capital of Culture, and 1,400 equal pay claims to be lodged against the authority, I fear that the legacy of 2008 will be further cuts to the services for the most vulnerable in our community.