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Thread: Liverpool Skyscraper Boom Over?

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    Creator & Administrator Kev's Avatar
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    Post Liverpool Skyscraper Boom Over?

    The head of Liverpool's new economic development company has admitted the recent boom in skyscrapers across the city is over.

    Speaking to the Liverpool Daily Post, Jim Gill warned that the threat of a recession is frightening off developers from pressing on with high rise schemes in the Capital of Culture host city.

    He told the paper: 'In the current economic climate, I would be very surprised if any new tower actually got under way in the sort of timetables we have seen over the past few years.

    'It's not like building a traditional housing estate where the house builder can move development forward in blocks of three, four or five houses.'

    Gill has recently become chief of the all new Liverpool Vision superquango made up of the city's three main development and business organisations Business Liverpool, the Liverpool Land Development Company and the exisitng Liverpool Vision.

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    His comments have been generally supported by city's main business players. Frank Mckenna ,of commercial lobby group Downtown Liverpool in Business, said: 'Gill is very knowledgeable about development and regeneration and I do not necessarily disagree with him.

    'But we have got to be careful though and not throw the baby out with the bathwater – we could be in danger of talking ourselves into a recession.'

    He added, however, that architects in the city were as busy as ever before but 'may be doing other things' than high rise developments.

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    Newbie jay2410's Avatar
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    What is the point in Gill saying this? Doesn't that statement just make his job harder?

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kev View Post
    The head of Liverpool's new economic development company has admitted the recent boom in skyscrapers across the city is over.

    Speaking to the Liverpool Daily Post, Jim Gill warned that the threat of a recession is frightening off developers from pressing on with high rise schemes in the Capital of Culture host city.

    He told the paper: 'In the current economic climate, I would be very surprised if any new tower actually got under way in the sort of timetables we have seen over the past few years.
    What also frightens them off is the fiasco of the iconic Brunswick Quay Tower rejection. Brunswick Quay Tower Rejection A total of one billion in investment that dragged on and on for years and the company lost a fortune and lots of time too making very serious world-class proposal. What city would turn down that sort of project?

    Others see that and don't even consider the city. They want to go to a dynamic go-ahead place to invest their money. They want to have excellent co-operation and prior advice from the city, then get planning permission quickly, then get the place built ASAP to get a return, together with public investment on infrastructure, particularly rapid transport.

    The LibDems were responsible for that rejection, in a city which was starved of investment for 30 years - you get as much as you can while you can as it never lasts. Beggars can't be choosers. What were they doing? What was in their tiny minds? They must be voted out for a more dynamic council - instead of the in-fighting shambles we have had for years and years.
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    Senior Member AK1's Avatar
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    I don't by any means think it's over, but I do think it is slowing down. Lets not forget that we still have the king edward tower, plot 3a princes dock and shanghai tower to come plus the central docks plan by peel in the distant future.
    I do think that the council are now more willing to approve high rise schemes since the brunswick tower incident. They have since abandoned their tall building policy which only allowed tall buildings in certain areas.

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    Senior Member SteH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK1 View Post
    . They have since abandoned their tall building policy which only allowed tall buildings in certain areas.
    But they have replaced it with a policy that demands a set number of parking spaces per each residential unit, a more devious and sunning way of limiting their number.

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    Insufficient parking has always been a reason for them to reject an application whatever the size or type of the building.
    Last edited by RoddersUK; 03-17-2008 at 04:36 PM.

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoddersUK View Post
    Insufficient parking has always been a reason for them to reject an application whatever the size or type of the building.
    If there is a rapid transport rail station adjacent then parking is non-issue. The sooner the disused tunnels, lines and stations are brought back into use the better.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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    Senior Member danensis's Avatar
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    I think that should be "world crass" not "world class". I really cannot see the point in making your city look just like every other city. It is Liverpool's uniqueness (and that of its people) that has given it its strength. If all you want is tower blocks then Hong Kong does it so much better, and India or Brazil is cheaper.

    John

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danensis View Post
    I think that should be "world crass" not "world class". I really cannot see the point in making your city look just like every other city. It is Liverpool's uniqueness (and that of its people) that has given it its strength. If all you want is tower blocks then Hong Kong does it so much better, and India or Brazil is cheaper.

    John
    The Brunswick Quay Tower was an iconic building not an oblong glass block. Look at the link I gave - and Liverpool being the home of the modern building,.

    Every city and region thinks its people are unique - so a non-issue. What is unique about Liverpool? In looks it is its variety of very differing buildings. What created that, was that those many years ago just built what they thought was apt at the time.

    Liverpool was famous for its innovation in building. The world's first air-conditioned building - St. George's Hall. The world's first steel framed glass curtain walled building - Oriel Chambers. The world's first large scale ferro-concrete building - the Liver Blgs. St. George's Solar school in Wallasey. Advanced Dock/warehouse buildings - Albert for e.g. The world's largest interconnected docks system.

    Now we have a bunch of people who think Liverpool should stay still and become a dead city like Venice.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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    Senior Member naked lilac's Avatar
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    I don't think Venisia is a dead city at all.. It is fabulous and unique and breathtaking to say the least.. and that is what the World would like to see ..

    I think, (personally speaking) , Liverpool is getting too modern and agree with danesis on this.. It is the Old worldly historic buildings that tourist and such come to see.. If they all are demolished for Modernism , then why would anyone want to come there?? People are drawn to Europe for the cobblestones and architecture of the forefathers.. NOT for glass, that you can see most anywhere.. Go to Dubai if you want MODERN.. my opinion...

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    Senior Member SteH's Avatar
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    I read an article on Venice somewhere, in that its population quadruples or something like that every day and by 7pm nearly all the tourists have left and nothing happens its a dead town. Venice will always attract tourists, but it will stay stagnant due to its canal based situation.

    Liverpool neednt be like that and lets face it most visitors come initially due to the Beatles and football, not because of historical buildings. Liverpool city council an others sometimes seem hell bent on restricting progress and putting whatever obstacles in the way they can. There seems an obsession at times with protecting the world heritage site which spans quite an area, yet the council were prepared to allow a 30 storey tower to go up at Concourse House, within a few hundred feet of St Georges Hall.
    Last edited by SteH; 03-18-2008 at 09:22 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by naked lilac View Post
    Liverpool is getting too modern
    If everyone had this attitude then we would still be living in caves or mud huts. The great building that Waterways just mentioned were all considered modern in their day. You cant turn the whole city into one big museum. What Liverpool need are new building of quality design but theses are very few and far between.

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    A valid opinion maybe. How about looking at the people who actually live and try to work in Liverpool, not just the people who like to come and have a look and then go back to where they come from, saying oh wasn't nice to see some history.

    Those people would quiet happily turn Liverpool into a giant museum or at the very best keep the status quo. After all you can't deny some people have an allergic reaction to change and the future.

    I would like to think, I represent the views of the majority of young professionals working in the city who want to see the city grow, want some interesting tall, eye catching buildings, that display prosperity and forward thinking to those looking to invest, and more importantly provide modern grade a office space for business, which you will find is costly and very hard to produce in older buildings. There is a lot of space towards the north end of the business district that lies derelict, and if developed would not affect the world heritage part of the water front, so what’s the harm in building scrapers there or at Brunswick for that mater, you could block them out with your hand looking from Birkenhead!

    My opinion is that Liverpool lags some way behind in business and jobs compared to other not to distant cities, and if someone wants to point money and ideas and infrastructure into the city then let them, going back to the article, "beggars can’t be choosers".

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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    I agree with having the best of both worlds - like posters are saying - we have to move on and grow. I am all for that.

    However, I do see what Nakedlilac is saying too .. ie, the beautiful old architecture of Europe - who would want to see that swept away and replaced by glass
    For instance, I don't go to Sevilla or Granada to look at concrete and glass - I go to experience the beauty and history of Al Andaluz - and of course the same would apply to any old European city.

    Just because you want to see and enjoy the old, doesn't mean you don't want the place to progress.

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Liverpool can have both new and old.

    Liverpool has to preserve what it has

    Far too many excellent old buildings are still being demolished or left to rot. This has to stop immediately. Introduction of Land Value Tax will stop it, as it did in Pittsburg in the USA

    Liverpool needs new buildings blending in with the old.

    New buildings can blend in with the old. For e.g., extending the Georgian quarter with only modern Georgian buildings - developers would line up to do that, as they know they would sell. Georgian buildings never went away, they have always been built to that style right up to this day. The worlds first stock-standard house. Style books were made and you just copied them. Many were built in the UK, Australia, New Zealand and North America.

    This new development in Aylesbury, by volume house builder Bryant blends in well. although slabbed pavements would have been better Some new developments have cobbled streets too.

    Liverpool needs new modern state-of-the-art buildings

    There is lots of spare land that can be used for state-of-the-art modern buildings. Venice is a dead city - it is not active in the commercial sense and has stayed static. De Gaulle feared Paris may end up the same way and reserved land west of Paris at La Defense. No architectural or height restrictions, do what you want. It is the financial district of Paris with lots of residential flats too. It worked. London copied it in the Docklands.

    The old dock waterways had old transit sheds, of which most are demolished. The warehouses can be converted to flats, not the sheds. These areas can be made vibrant by building new overhanging buildings as at Hamburg, or direct copies of the Albert Dock if need be. Below Hamburg:


    Liverpool needed this iconic building at Brunswick Dock as well. The city foolishly rejected it. It would have been built by now attracting attention from all over the world.

    .
    Last edited by Waterways; 03-18-2008 at 02:12 PM.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


    Giving Liverpool a full Metro - CLICK
    Rapid-transit rail: Everton, Liverpool & Arena - CLICK

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