who pinched all the water

[Waterways]

Is there anyway we can get them to not fill in the docks and actally redevelop the area instead of destrying the city's heritage. I'm not against tall buildings, i'm not against getting rid of shanty town industrail estates. I am against a world heritage site being destroyed.

The only way is get the local media and politicians involved. Peel appears law unto themselves.

Peel Holdings in the form of Ian Pollitt & Lindsey Ashworth directors, held a meeting with the tenants of Waterloo Warehouse & Waterloo Quay.
They produced a slick 'Star Wars like' presentation of their plans for Central Docks.

Basically it is fill most of the docks in and develop as much of it as they can get away with. This will destroy historic docks and the atmosphere of the area.

Peel intend to submit an application to fill in West Waterloo Dock!! Again

Peel are arrogant about the whole thing and are convinced they will get their way irrespective of the cost to the existing residents, and more importantly the significance of the docks historical importance and the loss to our cities heritage.

The local residents intend to produce as much historical information as possible in respect of these particular docks to be in a position to counter Peel's rampant quest for more profit!! Greed

These docks are important, the American packets berthed here, the largest migration in human history, and more people left via Liverpool than any other port. The United Nations recognised Liverpool's role in this migration and slapped World Heritage status on the docks and large parts of the city centre. It must be preserved for the rest of the world - the city of Liverpool merely being custodians.

The city has been here for 800 years, this heritage and history should not be destroyed by developers greed.

Many of us have seen a whole city stripped over the past 40 years. The people of Greater Liverpool must rise against this latest attack of Heritage stripping.

American Author Herman Melville compared observed Liverpool docks at close quarters and compared them to the construction of pyramids. The magnitude of the constructions is greater at Liverpool - and at Liverpool it was useful, unlike the pyramids.

'Redburn, His First Voyage' by Herman Melville 1849...

"Previous to this, having only seen the miserable wooden wharves and shambling piers of New York... in Liverpool I beheld long China walls of masonry; vast piers of stone; and a succession of granite-rimmed docks, completely enclosed. The extent and solidity of these structures seemed equal to what I had read of the old pyramids of Egypt. In magnitude, cost and durability the docks of Liverpool surpass all others in the world... for miles you may walk along that riverside, passing dock after dock, like a chain of immense fortresses.

Prince's Dock, of comparatively recent construction, is perhaps the largest of all and is well known to American sailors from the fact that it is mostly frequented by the American shipping. Here lie the noble New York packets, which at home are found at the foot of Wall-Street; and here also lie the Mobile and Savannah cotton ships and traders."

[gregs dad]

Gregs dad is is Princes Dock and Princes Half-Tide Dock - not Queens

It`s a good job I have Waterways as my editor. I must have drank to much wine with my tea ,thanks again Waterways. Even I know there is no Queens
half tide docks

[gregs dad]

Reflections in the Princes half tide dock.

[Broliv]

I've just been looking at the management plan for the world heritage site and from the looks of it princes dock and trafalger dock are not enclosed within the world heritage site. They only appear listed in the buffer zone.

I do want peels' development. I just want them to respect the dock boundries and deepen the docks. Create another marina. The coberg lock gate is currently being refurbished likely to be completed in May now after a number of set backs. British Waterways don't have anywhere other than the albert dock (£200 to open and close the tidal lock to the river) for access to the river even for smaller craft.

[Waterways]

I've just been looking at the management plan for the world heritage site and from the looks of it princes dock and trafalger dock are not enclosed within the world heritage site. They only appear listed in the buffer zone.

I do want peels' development. I just want them to respect the dock boundries and deepen the docks. Create another marina.

The UN stated Liverpool has historic dock waterways, but no historic ships. There is few places, in one of the world's largest ports, with half of it redundant, to put historic ships. The council are fully to blame for allowing sharks like Peel to make the dock waters shallow for inland canal boats. What is needed is the Princess Half-Tide river locks re-instated and a few dredgers to get in them docks and deepen them. Then get some historic ships in there and ideal berths for the tall and visiting ships.

The Coberg lock gate is currently being refurbished likely to be completed in May now after a number of set backs. British Waterways don't have anywhere other than the albert dock (£200 to open and close the tidal lock to the river) for access to the river even for smaller craft.

The Brunswick river lock is there and is cheap for small craft. The Coburg lock, anyone any pics?

[Broliv]

The Brunswick river lock is the one i mean. Its been out of action since late november. I will get a pic later when i go for a walk.

Btw. It is free to enter and leave the Brunswick/Coberg dock as long as you arrive upto 2.30 hours either side of high tide (Depending on tide height). You only have to pay for berthings which aren't that bad if you stay the night and its cheaper to get a berthing for the year.

I'm disapointed cause i go racing on the river and now i would have to travel to pwllheli if i'm to crew on one of the yachts over the winter period.

[Waterways]

The Brunswwich river lock is the one i mean. Its been out of action since late november. I will get a pic later when i go for a walk.

That is a newish lock and the gates are operated by hydraulics. What is the problem? The lock was made too narrow in my view only taking small craft. Are they widening the lock?

When fitting the lock gates they made the lock narrower. The larger ship lock next to it is filled in, however it can, like all of them, be re-fitted. The Brunswick can still take deep water vessels - probably needs a bit of a dredge though.

[Broliv]

Every 10 years it needs serviceing. It was last done in 1998. What with capital of culture being known since what 2004 you'd think British waterways would have had the forsight to start early even do it in 2007 or start in 2009. I know they chose the winter months because traditionally its the quiet season for sailing but we sail all year round.

The larger ships lock which you talk about is the proposed site for 3 towers to replace the failed Brunswick tower scheme. Howerver i don't know how they will fit 3 towers onto such a small site without in filling part of the existing marina.

The depth of the marina is around 24ft i think its the lock where the problem exists as the sill is around 4 ft off the river bed and you need to have atleast a 6 and a half foot clearence over the sill to be allowed to enter the lock

[Waterways]

The larger ships lock which you talk about is the proposed site for 3 towers to replace the failed Brunswick tower scheme. Howerver i don't know how they will fit 3 towers onto such a small site without in filling part of the existing marina.

I don't think the lock is being used to build on, only the river wall next to it. Brunswick Quay tower was not on the lock. I have not seen the plans for the three stumpy blocks. Maro, the tower people, a part of Matalan so local, wanted to excavate apart of Toxteth Dock. Toxteth and Harrington should be excavated and the industry moved out. You may find the development will be over the in-filled Toxteth Dock. which will not add value at all.

The depth of the marina is around 24ft i think its the lock where the problem exists as the sill is around 4 ft off the river bed and you need to have atleast a 6 and a half foot clearence over the sill to be allowed to enter the lock

The lock cannot take any large vessel at all, so the depth is not used. Ships can't even sail from the Canning river locks to the Brunswick, as permanent bridges block the passageways from dock to dock - a real silly idea. British Waterways and the council have no idea at all.

[Broliv]

I heard a few of the boat owners clumped together to pay to get out after the first setback, but it required the masts being removed for the journey down the docks to the albert dock. Even the bridge that did have the ability to be raised has fallen into disrepair and the controls to operate the bridge have been removed. Even so the bridge was only big enough to allow a yacht with a beam of about 20ft to pass though, less than that i think although i'm guessing.

The northen docks are in need of such refurbishment They could even open a full historic ship yard with the infrastructure that is down there, its a shame certain people don't have the forsight to see the potential for the city other than the short term gain.

I remember when i went to New york there is a dock area down there called the south street seaport with two great huge clippers. How surprised i was to fnd one was build at camelaird and registered in Liverpool. This is an area which is classed as a mercentile area and has some of the oldest buildings in new york. This is the sort of thing we should be aiming towards.

[Broliv]

http://www.southstseaport.org/index1.aspx?BD=8993

My mistake, built in southampton in 1885 for R.W. Leyland & Company of Liverpool, called the Wavertree

[Broliv]

A bit late but here is a pic from a few nights ago of the lock gates being refurbished at low tide

[gregs dad]

The UN stated Liverpool has historic dock waterways, but no historic ships. There is few places, in one of the world's largest ports, with half of it redundant, to put historic ships. The council are fully to blame for allowing sharks like Peel to make the dock waters shallow for inland canal boats. What is needed is the Princess Half-Tide river locks re-instated and a few dredgers to get in them docks and deepen them. Then get some historic ships in there and ideal berths for the tall and visiting ships.



The Brunswick river lock is there and is cheap for small craft. The Coburg lock, anyone any pics?

Just had a talk with my elder brother who used to keep his boat in the Cocklehole. he reckons the Coburg lockgates were concreted in 60 or 70 years ago. He also said they were known locally as the "the Dead Gate" as many small craft used to founder there.

[Waterways]

Just had a talk with my elder brother who used to keep his boat in the Cocklehole. he reckons the Coburg lockgates were concreted in 60 or 70 years ago. He also said they were known locally as the "the Dead Gate" as many small craft used to founder there.

The Coburg river lock gates were originally made in anticipation for paddle wheel vessels. I say anticipation, that is how far ahead they thought in those days. They are very wide. As paddles went and screw props came and ships got wider these lock gates were useful.

But very large ships could not enter most of the south end docks and a deeper dredged channel would be needed for entrance to the small Coburg dock. Large ships could not negotiate into Brunswick and Queens docks from the Coburg.

The twin Brunswick river locks were adequate for largish Brunswick, Toxteth, Coburg, Kings and Queens Docks. Also the Canning river lock could serve Wapping, Kings and Queens too for smaller vessels. The Herculaneum served Harrington and Toxteth Docks as well.

So the wide Coburg locks into small Cobug dock were closed off.

[Broliv]

Cool, always nice to know these bit of info!