Liverpool Waterloo Tunnel Update 10th Feb 2008

[jc_everton]

Also, who are you to say 'your analytical skills are poor'?! If you hold a Doctorate in Transport Planning, shouldn't you be at work or holding talks with more significant people?! I don't understand how a fascinating discussion on our transport system can turn into petty arguments on 'analytical skills'. What the hell?!

[Waterways]

A typical Liverpudlian? So everyone on the forum is from Liverpool?

That's even worse

CPO? Try and give them a bit of cash so they are forced out of their place of business? If the City Council wanted to put a price on buying out the place, they don't only own the garage but the Tunnel too, give that in square foot and then compensate them with today's prices.

Stop dropping into pedantics.

[robt]

These organisations are supposed to have vision and creativity - and someone from outside having a better idea then them? They will not have that.

No one, at present, has a better idea, that is feasable.

[robt]

Who is the 'Martin' you have now referred to twice?

Mmmmm

Thank you for that sensible mature answer.

[Waterways]

Dr. WW PhD, thanks for the kind advice but it is my aim to come up with a number of proposals that are realistic and to also consider the aims of Merseytravel. It seems as if they are considering reopening the tunnels but not in the way you propose.

On past performance they don't know what they want to do.

If your proposal was so blatently great, I'm sure someone at Merseytravel would have put the case forward by now

They don't know about it.

and if your scheme does ever go ahead then hat's off to you as your proposals would have been mirrorred by rail experts.
You feel my work will not be up to scratch because I do not agree with you!

No. You were losing focus. You were dropping into detail losing focus of what your aims were. You were all over the place. You need to re-focus and get it all back together.

It is my duty to weigh up every argument and look at the pro's and con's. I see pro's in your loop but I also see con's. I have put forward a number of innovative ideas in order to make us look at the bigger picture and consider all available options.

Good so far. Have you prioritised the options to achieve the mains aims?

I could have proposed other innovations but it's pointless because they are, of course... pet fads.
I was going to suggest you apply for a lecturer's job at JMU but lecturers need to be open-minded and instil this into their students. Sadly, you fail in this field.

I have done lecturing. One thing is clear - have main aims (what is it for? What is it to achieve?) . Never lose sight of those. If you do, you fail and wallowing about in irrelevancy. Structure it all - important to convey the message - the best ideas in the world will not be taken seriously if not put across properly.

[Waterways]

No one, at present, has a better idea, that is feasable.

I disagree. Look at the tram debacle.

[robt]

I have done lecturing. One thing is clear - have main aims (what is it for? What is it to achieve?) . Never lose sight of those. If you do, you fail and wallowing about in irrelevancy. Structure it all - important to convey the message - the best ideas in the world will not be taken seriously if not put across properly.

There is no point in setting aims which are unachievable. Surely you would agree with that in any context, not just this thread?

[Waterways]

Also, who are you to say 'your analytical skills are poor'?!

The guy clearly didn't know what was being put forward, even after being told where to find it.

[Ged]

The Mersey travel chief often pops up on Roger Phillips phone-in specials (radio merseyside noon till 2pm) and in fact was on one day last week. He seems very knowledgable on what he's had to answer before, this may stump him though. Might be an idea to find out when he's next on.

[Waterways]

There is no point in setting aims which are unachievable. Surely you would agree with that in any context, not just this thread?

Martin, you clearly refer to my proposal which is fully achievable and cost effective. Aims fully achievable.

This is something you will not understand too much. When at the conceptual level you allow your mind to run free without constraints - think outside and inside the box. The perfect solution must be thought of. Then constraints are added to get a solution as near to the perfect solution as possible.

You think backwards, which always ends up with a half-baked result that invariably does not suit the purpose.

[Cadfael]

Martin, you clearly refer to my proposal which is fully achievable and cost effective. Aims fully achievable.

This is something you will not understand too much. When at the conceptual level you allow your mind to run free without constraints - think outside and inside the box. The perfect solution must be thought of. Then constraints are added to get a solution as near to the perfect solution as possible.

You think backwards, which always ends up with a half-baked result that invariably does not suit the purpose.

How is it cost effective? Would anyone be able to put a figure on the whole operation? Who will pay for it? Will it be paid by ticket sales? We're still paying off the Mersey Tunnel with fares years later!

[jc_everton]

Good stuff. Of course it is important to not lose focus, but what I write on this board does not necessarily mean it is in my dissertation! For instance, the 'hanging railway' was a bit of light-hearted fun. There's no way that'd happen in Liverpool in a million years!
The only focus I am losing is spending too much time online! But my main aim was to look at areas of poor access to rail, NOT just Liverpool city centre - which is why I frequently include suburban areas in my posts - important to not forget about these as public transport is less frequent and less reliable the further you go from a city centre. We can't forget how thousands of commuters travel into the city centre every day and these are invaluable to the economy of the city (some might say they are more important because they are likely to be wealthier and more economically active). This is my focus, so whilst I take your advice into account, my aim is not to improve Liverpool - it is to consider all of Merseyside. Being a suburban commuter myself, I of course want to see better services into Liverpool!
And as I work at Sefton Council, I would also love to see the NMB reopen because at present, I must drive. Therefore, get ALL the suburban lines reopened ASAP because not EVERYONE travels into Liverpool. Important to not lose focus of that too.

[jc_everton]

Interesting to hear about the Roger Phillips phone-in. Will Waterways phone in next time Merseytravel make an appearance?! Good way of putting MT on the spot...

[robt]

Martin, you clearly refer to my proposal which is fully achievable and cost effective. Aims fully achievable.

This is something you will not understand too much. When at the conceptual level you allow your mind to run free without constraints - think outside and inside the box. The perfect solution must be thought of. Then constraints are added to get a solution as near to the perfect solution as possible.

You think backwards, which always ends up with a half-baked result that invariably does not suit the purpose.

I still have no idea who Martin is. Maybe you should enlighten me, rather than being downright rude. I don't need to insult you, or be rude, to get my point across.

If you aims are achievable, please explain how, using realisitic technologies and funding? You say 80% is already there - 80% of what? There are some old disused tunnels already there and some existing rail lines, that is it. In the grand scale of the whole finished project, that is about 5% already there.

If you idea is so good and achievable, then you are right, you are going round in circles - take it to someone who can do something about it?

[Waterways]

The Mersey travel chief often pops up on Roger Phillips phone-in specials (radio merseyside noon till 2pm) and in fact was on one day last week. He seems very knowledgable on what he's had to answer before, this may stump him though. Might be an idea to find out when he's next on.

Ged, I think this sort of man would talk down an idea they never came up with. Answering simple questions about trams and buses may be quite easy for him.