carl jung and liverpool visit.

**shirleya** · 02-03-2008

hi all
just wondering if there is any proof out there as to wether carl jung ever visited liverpool or just dreamed about it.

Partsky · 02-03-2008

Hi Shirleya; the way I heard it, he never visited, except in a dream. I understand he wrote this is his diary.

**Waterways** · 02-04-2008

Originally Posted by Partsky

Hi Shirleya; the way I heard it, he never visited, except in a dream. I understand he wrote this is his diary.

His dream was reasonably accurate too. It appeared to cross time zones intermixing the 1920s and earlier layouts of the city. I'm not sure if he eventually did visit the city. It is all on the web, I read it all, so a Google will drag it out.

**shirleya** · 02-06-2008

thanks waterways and parksky-i read it in memories dreams and reflections recently-and wondered if he had actually been at any time-and why he actually dreamed of liverpool instead of say london or any other big city. Maybe he came into england via liverpool when he travelled -do you think that would be the case-i know you cant choose your dreams but it must have been in hi mind from somewhere??????

**Waterways** · 02-07-2008

Originally Posted by shirleya

thanks waterways and parksky-i read it in memories dreams and reflections recently-and wondered if he had actually been at any time-and why he actually dreamed of liverpool instead of say london or any other big city. Maybe he came into england via liverpool when he travelled -do you think that would be the case-i know you cant choose your dreams but it must have been in hi mind from somewhere??????

Carl Jung had never been to Liverpool when he had his dream. His dream was accurate enough and those who analysed it say that the bottom of Matthew St was one of the locations, albeit in a different time to what we see now. The location of the pool. The cliffs? Some at Herculaneum. The road up from the river are steep and in earlier days there may have been sort of cliffs there.

"I found myself in a dirty, sooty city. It was night, and winter, and dark, and raining. I was in Liverpool. With a number of Swiss, I walked through the dark streets. I had the feeling that we were coming up from the harbour, and that the real city was actually up above, on the cliffs. We climbed up there. When we reached the plateau, we found a broad square, dimly illuminated by street lights, into which many streets converged. The various quarters of the city were arranged radially around the square.

In the centre was a round pool, and in the middle of it a small island. While everything round about was obscured by rain, fog, smoke and dimly-lit darkness, the little island blazed with sunlight. On it stood a single tree- a Magnolia- in a shower of reddish blossoms. It was as though the tree stood in the sunlight and was at the same time the source of the light.

My companions commented on the abominable weather, and obviously did not see the tree. They spoke of another Swiss who was living in Liverpool and expressed surprise that he should have settled here. I was carried away by the beauty of the flowering tree and the sunlit island, and thought "I know very well why he has settled here". Then I awoke.

On one detail of the dream I must add a supplementary comment: the individual quarters of the city were themselves arranged around a central point. This point formed a small open square illuminated by a larger street lamp, and constituted a small replica of the island. I knew that the 'other Swiss' lived in the vicinity of one of these secondary centres. The dream represented my situation at the time. I can still see the greyish-yellow raincoats, glistening with the wetness of the rain. Everything was extremely unpleasant, black and opaque- just as I felt then. But I had had a vision of unearthly beauty, and that was why I was able to live at all. Liverpool is the "pool of life"."

Why he dreamed of Liverpool? Even he doesn't know that.

**Waterways** · 02-10-2008

The island in the centre Jung mentioned is on the maps before the "pool" was filled in. The griminess was that of mud.

One of Kevin's maps:

**shirleya** · 02-11-2008

thanks for that info waterways-and for the map. Which way would he have come to england on his visits anyway-what options would he have-only sea i would have thought.

**Waterways** · 02-12-2008

Originally Posted by shirleya

thanks for that info waterways-and for the map. Which way would he have come to england on his visits anyway-what options would he have-only sea i would have thought.

I am not sure if Carl Jung did actually get to Liverpool. I did know but have forgot. But from Switzerland it would have been train, cross-channel ship and train.

When he had the dream he knew little, if anything, about Liverpool at all. All he would have known is that Liverpool was big port city in England, not much else.

Partsky · 02-12-2008

Its late and Im knackered and if someone has posted this,tell me to shut up. When I was a teenager, I frequentled Aunt Twackies (I think) and the Armadillo Tearooms (along with various Bunnymen etc) around the corner from the White Star off Whitechapel, and I swear there was a statue of Karl Jung Outside the building. I think it was also the site for Ken Campbells mad ongoing theatre "event" "Illuminatus" which, if memory serves me right, had elements of Jung in it because of the connection. I cant swear to it but was it held in what was the Armadillo which I think but am not sure may have previously been the Liverpool School of Music song and Pun, or something cracked like that? I was often drunk at the time being young and daft so would like someone to point out which bits are true and which are alcohol induced and futher muddied through 40 years or so. If any of the above accurate? My mate cant remember any of this and she was with me!!!!

**tpoo22** · 02-12-2008

The bust of Jung is still there - it's in the wall of what is now Flanagan's Apple, on the opposite corner to the Armadillo. I was there in 1976 at the unveiling, as a very confused 9 year old whose father had heard about a Jung festival and thought it would be good for youngsters. It was.This page has more of the amazing story of the Liverpool School of Language, Music, Dream and Pun. Heady days, by this account!

**shirleya** · 02-14-2008

Thanks for all that-i also heard about that bar and the bust of jung when i was reading on the web about number 23 and all that-probably the same thing as you have just mentioned -and jung was a great believer in coincidences meaning something. Has anyone got a pic of the bust of jung anywhere??? You are probably right waterways-it has always been a well known port and the north has always been notorious for being thought dark and wet and foggy. Thanks for all your replies folks-very informative and interesting. And please dont shut up partsky-you were very helpful even though you were tired. cheers.