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Thread: Which UK Cities Have More Georgian Buildings Than Liverpool

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    Member Sarah's Avatar
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    Default Which UK Cities Have More Georgian Buildings Than Liverpool

    I absolutely adore walking through the Georgian quarter of Liverpool, the terraces are so beautiful and elegant, however, I know Liverpool has more Georgian buildings than Bath, but I was wondering if anywhere had more than Liverpool?

    The only reason I ask this is because I read conflicting evidence, some places say Liverpool has the most in the UK, and others say more than anywhere outside London. I only like to know exactly as when I'm guiding people around I like to have my information accurate!

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    Thank you anybody who knows exactly.
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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarah View Post
    I absolutely adore walking through the Georgian quarter of Liverpool, the terraces are so beautiful and elegant, however, I know Liverpool has more Georgian buildings than Bath, but I was wondering if anywhere had more than Liverpool?

    The only reason I ask this is because I read conflicting evidence, some places say Liverpool has the most in the UK, and others say more than anywhere outside London. I only like to know exactly as when I'm guiding people around I like to have my information accurate!

    Thank you anybody who knows exactly.
    Not 100% sure. I would assume London has more because of its size, and then Edinburgh with Liverpool being third.

    Bath is small. It is a city because it has a cathedral not because of its size.
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    See this thread already on YO Sarah.

    http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/sho...=bath+georgian
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    PhilipG
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    It depends on your definition of "Georgian".
    Victoria was crowned in 1837, and the "Georgian Quarter" of Liverpool (inland from Rodney Street) was mostly built in her reign.
    The usual claim is "More Georgian Buildings than Bath", but Bath's buildings are genuinely Georgian in age (and - it must be said - better looking).

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    It depends on your definition of "Georgian".
    Victoria was crowned in 1837, and the "Georgian Quarter" of Liverpool (inland from Rodney Street) was mostly built in her reign.
    I would disagree with that. I worked for British Gas and had access to the pipeline drawings. The dates on the pipes laid were on the maps. Upper Parliament St was predominately early 1830s.

    The usual claim is "More Georgian Buildings than Bath", but Bath's buildings are genuinely Georgian in age (and - it must be said - better looking).
    Looks is subjective. French people I know love the red brick houses, because they don't have them in France - they are different. I preferred the French yellow stone.

    Georgian is pre-Victoria and Liverpool is littered with buildings older than that. In the past 40-45 years easily half have gone. A whole city's worth.

    There is also the Georgian Style which has been made for the past 300 years without a break. These are made today. Some Wimpey estates are full of them. The Georgian house was the first mass produced style of house. There was a set pattern of style - you followed the plans which were bought off-the-shelf anywhere.

    Georgian houses look "balanced" as there was a set calculation to the size of windows and doors to the exterior house size, etc. The style was set mainly via the 3 x 4 ratio (the same for initial film and TV screens). This ratio is one that people naturally find attractive and when a persons facial features conform to this symmetry of the ratio of the eyes, nose, mouth an attractive person emerges to the human brain.

    Many modern "Georgian" houses do not keep the symmetry of the style and hence look odd. A modern house built to the Georgian style and symmetry is every much a Georgian house as one built in 1800, a continuation of a style that has never been stopped.

    They were a cheap and effective style for the time. The modern Georgian houses have only the exterior effect and deviate from the original set styles somewhat.

    The from the ceiling down sash windows were a brilliant design throwing light to the far walls of the rooms. In hot weather open the top and bottom sashes and heat leaves the room at ceiling level. Cooler air enters via the opened lower sash creating a cool air current in the room. Trickle ventilation where the sashes meet in the centre, when just opening one slightly. The problem with sashes,was that they leaked air a lot and caused draughts. Modern sashes are now sealed and air-tight.

    Georgian houses were built all over the UK, Ireland and North America too. Wiliamsburg in the USA is full of them, along with other north east USA cities. Some were made in New Zealand and Australia too. The tall ceilings and windows up to the ceilings were brilliant for cooling. The design made its way all over the world.

    Liverpool certainly has more "Georgian style" of houses than Bath that is for sure.

    There are a few books all of the same title, "The Georgian House". These explain the types and how it came about. The date of build can be set, by if the windows were flush with the outside brickwork or inset.

    The Georgian Group, who have an American branch. They campaign to save Georgian buildings and were highly critical of Liverpool council for allowing Georgian buildings to be demolished.
    http://www.georgiangroup.org.uk/docs/cases/index.php
    Last edited by Waterways; 11-07-2007 at 05:26 PM.
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    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
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    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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    Thanks for the link, Ged.

    I read in Ken Pye's book, 'Discover Liverpool' that yes indeed, the Georgian buildings are late Georgian, however, he states they were definitely built in the Georgian period, before Victoria was crowned, to me just because something is late Georgian period doesn't make it less of a Georgian building, that would be like saying the 'Phil' is less of a Victorian pub because it was completed in 1900, the year before Quenn Victoria died.

    I can't agree that Liverpool's Georgian buildings aren't in good condition, if you walk around Falkner Square, Falkner Street, Catherine St, Canning St, Huskisson St and Percy St amongst others, you see exactly how many there are and how beautiful they are. So much so that Liverpool is often doubling for Georgian and Victorian London in TV and film.

    I'm guessing, the figures of having more than Bath is probably because both cities, and all cities for that matter, will most likely have the buildings registered, just the same as how they keep track on how many listed buildings are in a city.

    Btw, thank you Waterways, it was very interesting what you wrote.
    Last edited by Sarah; 11-07-2007 at 02:58 PM.
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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    I agree, that was an interesting post Waterways.
    I have learned a little about architecture, and I didn't know that about sash windows cooling the room from ceiling height in hot weather. All well thought out

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    PhilipG
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    Default 1836 map.


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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    That map is about right. The streets have been laid out for house construction and the gas mains will be under. Canning St is clearly under construction.

    There is/was a gas plant at Edge Hill at Spofforth Rd. This will probably supply this part of the city. There was/is one at Grafton St serving the south end and that part of the city centre and there was one at the north end around Vauxhall Rd somewhere serving the north ends and that part of the centre.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
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    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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    As far as I'm aware, only London has more Georgian buildings.

    As for being true Georgian buildings, you have to remember that when a monarch dies, builders don't all turn to each other and say, we'd better start a completely different style of building today. It would be weird if it happened overnight. Therefore, it's quite possible to have Georgian buildings in early Victorian Britain and even today.

    Julie

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    PhilipG
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    Default Bath in pictures.

    I'm not putting Liverpool's Georgian or Georgian-style architecture down, but there is a difference between Bath and Liverpool.

    http://images.google.com/images?q=ge...=1&sa=N&tab=wi
    Last edited by PhilipG; 11-08-2007 at 11:26 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    That map is about right. The streets have been laid out for house construction and the gas mains will be under. Canning St is clearly under construction.

    There is/was a gas plant at Edge Hill at Spofforth Rd. This will probably supply this part of the city. There was/is one at Grafton St serving the south end and that part of the city centre and there was one at the north end around Vauxhall Rd somewhere serving the north ends and that part of the centre.

    Athol Street gasworks is the one you're thinking of. There is also one at Linacre Lane, Bootle for the north end.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ged View Post
    Athol Street gasworks is the one you're thinking of. There is also one at Linacre Lane, Bootle for the north end.
    Athol St!!! I couldn't think of the name. Lincacre Lane was for Bootle and the far north end, which was later. Similar, Garston Gas Works did Garston and far south end of the city later. Prescot Gas Works did, Prescot and later parts of Huyton and Knowsley, if I am not mistaken. Kirkby was supplied by Linacre along high pressure pipelines. The gas is now stored at low pressure and piped at high pressure. In the olden days the nearer to the gas works the higher the pressure, so the gas rings would have large flames, and those furthest would have small flames. It was fine for lighting.

    Hind St does Birkenhead and the Wirral. I never figured out how they got the gas from Birkenhead across the docks to Wallasey.

    In 1830 there would have been fields along the the north end of the river and Athol St would have supplied the small north end of the city and the north end of the centre.

    In the early 1800s, the gas works were built on the edge of what was the town then. Grafton St, Athol St, Spofforth Rd.

    Athol St was de-commissioned and demolished in the 1970s. All the other gas plants are still in operation. Grafton St was actually expanded in 1971 with that far too large light green gas tank. I wish they would pull it down.

    Prescot had experimental small high pressure torpedo shaped tanks, which held a lot of gas for the size. They were thinking of taking down all the old ugly tank holders and using the high pressure tanks. They abandoned the project.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
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    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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    Athol Street gasworks in the shadow of 22 storey Logan Towers. The tallest prefabricated structure in the world when opened on 15th July 66.
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    Liverpool certainly had more Georgian buildings before the 60's when the Royal Liverpool and the University of Liverpool cleared swathes of Georgian properties in the name of progress. Some rather iconic images of these times can be found in Freddy O'Connor's "Liverpool: It all came tumbling down" which is a very good read indeed! Everton Ridge was also an area which had a good population of Georgian housing stock as well as Victorian Terraces.

    Don't forget that there are clusters of Georgian buildings scattered across the city in the likes of Wavertree, Woolton and West Derby not to mention the odd building dating from this age in Kirkdale and Knotty Ash.
    Liverpool Suburbia@Flickr

    UPDATED 14JUN09 20 images added to Dovecot
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