When a garden is not a garden

[collegepudding]

Oudeis , The test name was derived from the poor law requirement that a person who wanted to receive poor relief had to be prepared to enter the horrors of a workhouse and undertake a set amount of work prior to receiving money [relief], consequently ,only the very desperate were prepared to undertake this ,so called test........no surprise then that there where so many beggars and thieves on the streets hey ?

collegepudding

[Oudeis]

And there was me thinking early rocketry.

These sorts of places were in every town. There is a street in my home town that my mother was loth to venture down, silly superstitious thing that she was,. Debtors Prison, work house and down at the end...cemetery. Once you got into that street there was no getting out.

[lindylou]

You were pretty much correct in your post Oudeis.....The Test house covered roughly the present day area between Belmont Grove and the parallel stretch of Richmond Park.
The St Georges RC Industrial School Athletic Ground adjoined it on the site of the Present St Margaret's C of E School and was all part and parcel of the Workhouse complex . Before moving to the Workhouse Site the Mixed Industrial School had been at West Derby Rd and prior to that it was at the Netherfield Rd area.
The Girls School eventually split and moved to various locations.

collegepudding

You've got my brain a bit muddled now ..I'm rather mixed up with the West Derby rd and Netherfield rd connections to the Lower Breck rd site
The ground you are talking about was a dog track in my nan's days - 'The white City' wasn't it??
In fact I can just about vaguely remember seeing the floodlights - I would have been very small, could have been late 1950s perhaps or even early 60s. Not sure when it went.
It was where the new St Margaret's school is now.

Well, I've never heard of the St G's athletic ground - although initially I was thinking Oudie was meaning an actual school or church (which there wasn't a St Georges in our area as far as I know) - well, not in my lifetime ..and I'm very old ! I've not heard of it mentioned before, but probably my elderly uncle would have known it - he went to St Margaret's school.. he was quite well up on his local history but no longer with us.
But it all fits regarding what you say about an athletic ground which was apparently taken over for further sporting use, ie, the dog track ??
I think I've worked it now -- a school which wasn't necessarily an Anfield school was using the grounds for sports ?

ps, CP do you remember the 'cubicals? ' with the little reception window on Lower Breck rd?

---------- Post added at 10:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:20 AM ----------

And there was me thinking early rocketry.

These sorts of places were in every town. There is a street in my home town that my mother was loth to venture down, silly superstitious thing that she was,. Debtors Prison, work house and down at the end...cemetery. Once you got into that street there was no getting out.

My nan was the same. The workhouse was rock bottom for those in dire straits and was to be feared
The 'cubicals' I mention was spoken about in hushed tones ! ..even in my times as a kid .. being a resident of the 'cubicals' would be the ultimate stigma. Although we didn't understand as kids about the plight of the homeless.
I think it was a place for what we have called 'tramps' or vagrants - and I heard of evicted families going in there.
I suppose the places were something like modern day hostels for homeless.

[collegepudding]

You are correct about the Greyhound Track Lindy . opened 1931- closed 1973, I reckon Ged will have a pic of that one......Dont have any recollections on the cubicles i'm afraid cos Lower Brecky wasnt on my travels when i was a lad, but many Workhouses were certainly constructed with segregated areas of cubicles just big enough for a Bed and a Chair and usually a small window.

....apologies to Colin Wilkinson for diverting from his original Thread !

collegepudding

[lindylou]

Thanks CP. Also to Colin too

Hope it's not off topic too much but 'When is garden not a garden?' just reminded me too of 'when is a park not a park ?'

A last comment on Richmond Park; the conversaton prompted me to have a closer look at an old map I have.
I can see Belmont rd Workhouse listed as you say - West Derby Union. I can see the field but it's not named. Also I can see a 'Belmont Cottage' (located approx where Rowan Garth is now).

More interesting to me is the villas that were around. The map is dated 1893 - but the villas would have been built before then. The villas are; Lower Breck House, Richmond House, Sycamore House, Saville House, Rivelin, and a couple of others not named. I notice some of the villas have a lot of trees in their grounds - maybe small orchards.
Looking closer, I see that my old street Wolverton st, was built where villas once stood. Only one villa remained and that was Campbell's dance hall in Richmond park which survived until until 1970s. ..oh, and the Old Parsonage survived. (for Holy Trinity).
It's really interesting to me - to imagine how lovely it must have been when those villas were all there in their hey day - and I can see why Richmond Park was so named.
Not forgetting that also on the opposite side of LowerBreck is Breckside Park - where there was another cluster of villas - just 4 or 5 still remain.

As an aside, I noticed too that Castlewood rd was listed as Osborne rd. ( I wonder when it changed it's name?).

Sorry if this has been off topic - but gardens and parks - similar ?

[collegepudding]

Thanks for that interesting insight into the areas former grand villas and what appears to have been at one time very salubrious district .

"Sorry if this has been off topic - but gardens and parks - similar ?".........like it !


collegepudding