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I'd like to know your view on this Ged..
As you know, I was banned from a forum for answering an idiot that said 'peasants' from Scottie Rd.. (Byrom Street actually, Holy Cross to be precise..)
should be shipped out as they are in the way stopping the development of high density developments...
As usual, I jumped right in and defended the people of my area having every right to live
where their ancestors had been living for the past 100 years or so...
I got no support from anybody on that forum full of 3 mile high structure loving nutters..
I know you still go on there as I look in now and again..
I want to know Ged..do you agree with these 'Yuppie Scousers..?.'
Do you think Holy Cross should be flattened to make way for high rises and the people shipped out whether they like it or not..?...
Just like Edge Lane.. a lot of them cranks on that site were over the moon at the thought
of people being thrown out of their homes to make way for a road..
No, I do not agree that your house should be flattened as we are both well aware that residents have lived in the Little Italy and Holy Cross area forever. There are dopes on there saying likewise about the low rise housing on the periphery of L1 (at the bottom of Park Lane) that they too should be wiped away - what utter bullocks. So no, I don't agree with that. I thought you knew by now through my books and support of the Everton project last Saturday that I do not agree with Communities being broken up and shipped out anywhere - including Edge Lane and i've stated the same on here.
However, are we not talking about a different area here with Peel. A desolate site at Central Docks that had its heyday with conventional shipping which will never return. For Wayne and UNESCO to say it interferes with a World Heritage site (The Pier Head) when it is a mile further North is rubbish. Wayne and the English Heritage would do better concentrating on Everton Road and Shaw Street which as you know as well as me has lay as a disgrace since we were kids and those are main thoroughfares into the city with a housing shortage.
So do we leave acres of derelict land where locals and tourists alike can't get to see the likes of the 6 sided Waterloo Tower or do we incorporate it into a design that brings the docks back into play like what's happened in the South end? As for whether they're Yuppies or not (I know of a number of ex Walton, Wavertree and Bootle residents that live in apartments at Waterloo and Beetham. In any case, money being spent into the economy by those that can afford it in buildings built with not a penny of tax payers funds cannot be a bad thing can it?
We have to watch that our procrastination and thwarting of schemes by those in Whitehall does not drive the private investment away to somewhere else such as Manchester who have a more forward and less bickering thinking council and who just let architects get on with things, perhaps London favours that. That's what I want for liverpool. People sitting at outdoor cafes on A sunday ala Paris with a bustling city centre and pleasure craft on the docks is better than the ghost town I used to run through in the 1980s with only the sound of a flock of pigeons doing one when you got close to them. There's room for us all as the inner city population was decimated in the 80s and still isn't back to what it was.
There has to be a balance. Nobody lost their house for the building of the new museum, nor will they lose their house if scrapers are built along the Vauxhall waterfront. You're not saying the view from Wallasey which is on just about everyones flickr or website isn't more stunning now than in the 80s are you? I wouldn't have thought so as your cracking shots of the scrapers from the Everton view point answers that for me. Did I also mention the 20,000 jobs that the construction (with a clause for a local take up) and the on going commercial letting will create.
Good for you Ged, I take my hat off to you for coming out saying they are dopes..
with all due respect mate, thats the 1st time I've heard you not 'sitting on the fence' and telling it like it is..
Good lad... theres a pint in the pump for yer lad after that..
Peel ?... do you actually know whats going on down the docks.. ?
I do... and they have'nt got a clue what they are doing...
I sincerely hope the Dockers clock area is not ruined by high rises full of gobsh.ites
that would pass it daily without giving a second look or thought about its history..
God forbid that... don't ask me what I think should be there...
as I dont know.. guess that makes me as wise as the planning idiots then and the brainy b******s that are on that gobsh.ite forum....
but I hope its done in a maritime manner, in keeping with our heritage..
Speaking of which... I'm off down the tobacco warehouse.. again...
Speak later mate....
Good stuff Gerard, I look forward to the photos.
---------- Post added at 01:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 PM ----------
This isn't in reply to Gerard in particular but just generally, a couple of Peel's pics of how they propose to make it look noticing they are not trying to dwarf the tobacco warehouse but build to a height sympathetic with it so it's not all about Skyscrapers but just developing huge swathes of desolte and isolated land. Peel agree that the Victoria Tower (sorry not Waterloo like I called it earlier) should be a feature, in fact it's listed and approval would not be given unless it was a feature. The people of Vauxhall have seen their industry and job prospects disappear with Bibbys, Tates the BAT and Tillotsons and the like and they deserve regeneration like this and even more so if it's not costing the taxpayer a penny so what's to lose?
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No malicious intent, Ged, you've been a great help to me in the past,
Best wishes ( and to Gerard Fleming),
Last edited by chasevans; 07-21-2011 at 02:19 PM. Reason: haven't edited,
The Wind Cries Mersey
That's fine Chas, no bad intent has been seen by me but I don't go around local community centres for free with Paul Sudbury banging on about the mistake of breaking up Communities including Gerard Gardens and decimation of Scottie road because I prefer Skyscrapers being built on the site instead and if you can point me to a sentence in any of my 3 books which outlines this i'd be very interested to see it as it doesn't exist. Therefore I would have to say you're the first comment i've ever received where it was perceived as so, I think i'd have been strung up at these events by now
You will have to forgive me Chas that I haven't a clue regarding the white elephant in Vauxhall or doffing caps to anyone - I also don't love Skyscrapers but I do love it that private companies such as Grosvenor and Peel have seen enough confidence in us to invest heavily which should be welcomed.
We either have a glass half full or half empty. I don't disagree with you that certain restaurants and shops cater for the more well off but that's not a reason not to have them because build them and they will come and they have. What is the other option? We don't build and leave the eternal oller and nobody will give us a second look.
A mile is a mile Chas. How far along would you say the Tobacco warehouse is from the Liver? I reckon it'd take you or me ten minutes to run it, i'm not Linford
The council do indeed have responsibilities and one of them is passing the Peel plans which EH and UNESCO are intent of getting in the way of.
The downturn of inner city Liverpool did indeed start a lot earlier than the 80s and all the more reason it should be reversed. Look at it this way, if you cannot afford the prices today with nothing built and you cannot afford the perceived new yuppie prices - nothing has changed for you but at least the place looks better and jobs have been created. Nothing's going to happen where prices come down even if nothing is built.
I've said nothing Ged about the view from Wallasey..
thanks for that about my pics.. but I cant change the view to suit me..
I could photoshop them awful buildings out of my photos..
and I think about doing it every time I look at my photos after taking them from the Wallasey side..
The view now..?...or the 80's..? of Liverpool and the Pier Head from Wallasey..
Give me the 80's.. any day of the week..
Talking of these modern waterfront views Ged..
Do you like the view today from The Albert Dock across the Canning Dock of the Liver Building.. ?
say yes Ged and you definately are spending too much time on that crank forum..
And the view thing you have put of of them pretty pictures of Clarence Dock..
Crap....awful... and definately not something I'd like to see..
is there nothing original on the looney tunes forum ?
Nobody have their own Ideas apart from these daft cartoon things..
Not that clever on there.. are they ?
No, i've never said the SCC forumers are clever but it's not about them is it, these are Peel renders. I know it's all subjective and a matter of taste but here's what we have on the table at the moment and probably forevermore given how long the proposed sites have looked like they have for decades.
That new 'view' you were on about from the South towards the Pier Head is a disgrace, not even a view. I can't think of anyone who likes those black buildings and the spoilt view through the old arch towards the 3 graces but that again is a different subject.
---------- Post added at 03:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:27 PM ----------
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Both are iconic, I just prefer it now imho.
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DON'T FORGET THE SCROLL BAR
Yes it is.. and their childish 'Etch a sketch' cartoon effort doodles of Liverpool Airport..
remember ? .. the usual shiney s'hite that go's these days for 'Modern"...
Awful.. created by fresh faced stupid idiots with no doubt even more stupid idiot tutors..
that live in cloud cuckoo land... I wouldn't let them design a bird table.. never mind a building..
..and these lunatics live and work in Liverpool.. so it is about them.
Let them idiots near the north docks and thats what we'd get..
the same bad shiney s.hite..
Yes Ged, I'm aware of that..
When anybody with half a brain can come up with something different...
something that might actually compliment the area...
something designed by somebody thats not straight out the Science Fiction manual..
Something traditonal, but modern.. that SHOULD have been put on Mann Island..
Then Ged... when I see something like that that Liverpool should have got..
I might change my mind.. I'm all for change.. but not the crap thats going up in Liverpool..
I'll be waiting a long time I suppose Ged.. I've yet to see anybody with the nouse, or brains...or the bravery... to have a go at designing something simplistic, and modern at the same time, to compliment the likes ofthe Liver Building... too late for there now as the area is ruined, we had a chance... and cocked it up it..
Its not too late for the North Docks.. lets hope some clever kid with a mind of their own comes along eh...
I wouldn't let that fella from Manchester on ssc loose with a design for the docks either but these are not anyones on ssc renders but lets look at what did get passed by the planners. The bland Crown Plaza - just because it wouldn't clash with its neighbour, the Liver. Hard to believe now there were people who didn't want the Liver because it was considered too out of character with the area.
---------- Post added at 04:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:27 PM ----------
Back on topic.
This now seems a long time ago.
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