Shanghai-style plan

[Oudeis]

A letter in today's Guardian (link 1) which gives a link to the earlier story (link 2)...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/ma...ool-waterfront


http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/ma...sk?INTCMP=SRCH

[Lizzie1]

Before all the monstrosities were built!

[Harry]

What monstrosities?
The Pier Head looks better NOW than its ever done.
As recently as the 1980's, it was a tramps toilet.
The Liver building aint so pretty.
People are far too precious about everything in this city, you would think we lived in Venice or Florence the way people go on about out tedious 200 metre long "waterfront".

[goldenface]

I absolutely love the waterfront the way it is now. The contrast in styles, ages and building materials in the architecture makes it a remarkable public open space.

Standing near the floating bridge area and looking South on a bright, sunny day gives a great vista.

[Howie]

Here comes the yuan

A city’s bid to revive its fortunes through the local and the global


AT THE new Museum of Liverpool (above), a sleek limestone affair of Danish design, the city’s Chinese community, which began with an influx of sailors at the start of the 19th century, gets an exhibit to itself. The emphasis seems a little odd, until you consider the city’s regeneration strategy, which rests on a characteristically 21st-century mix of the local and the global. The aim is to use Liverpool’s storied past to attract investment from around the world—and from China in particular.

More >>

[chasevans]

Before we get carried away with the notion of Chinese investment and how Merseyside will benefit, a word of warning. This month thge UK's electronics industry meets to discuss how China's role in counterfeiting goods has affected the UK ( and western) economies generally. It's worth reading before the Peel offer is considered. Peel are in a hurry to get their deal passed.
Peel's response to UNESCO report:-

Peel, however, has said the report is flawed and has refused to agree to any demands to remove skyscrapers.
Lindsey Ashworth, its director of investments, told the Liverpool Daily Post:
"It is not about making a profit. The opportunity is now. I think it is a
shame that we cannot reach agreement. But we are right, and they are
completely wrong."

Apologies to anyone who tried this link to Farnell electronics site. It was working then closed down overnight.
http://www.element14.com/community/docs/DOC-28410/l/about-counterfeiting
_{Here is a screen grab copy of the page}
I've often stated my views on Peel and UNESCO, I'll not expand on cockle pickers and China. This Far East country can't look out for it's own, can we really expect to live off the backs of the Chinese poor? It's distasteful, disgraceful and the whole idea should shame Merseysiders.
Yes, I'm probably viewing this on a Chinese component screen (actually a Philips).
Chas

[az_gila]

What monstrosities?
The Pier Head looks better NOW than its ever done.
As recently as the 1980's, it was a tramps toilet.
The Liver building aint so pretty.
People are far too precious about everything in this city, you would think we lived in Venice or Florence the way people go on about out tedious 200 metre long "waterfront".

IIRC, it was a tramps toilet because of the bus station.

It can be a nice open space public area without the ugly museum. A new ferry terminal and a cruise terminal that blended in, along with the open space and artwork would have fit the bill nicely.

It would have still been "a remarkable public open space".

[Doris Mousdale]

The old buildings on Shanghai's waterfront are very reminicent of the Pier Head . If you watch the opening sequence of Empire of the Sun a movie from a book by J G Ballard who grew up in Shanghai you can see the shots of The Bund ( Shanghai's Pier Head)
Since the end of the cultural revolution there has been amazing building development in Shanghai but most on the Pudong side of the river. The iconic buildings on the Bund are in amazing shape and the Chinese are proud of the heritage value of the original buildings.New towers are all over the city some 88 stories high with open atriums and nightclubs on the penthouse floor this is all good but they also have 20 million people living in Shanghai- and that is just the legals so there are plenty of takers for apartments and office space. It would be hard to justify any sort of similar development in Liverpool and the one thing that Chinese want is a return on their investment either money out or people in.
Last time I visited and I have been there many times it had become very westernised with a Marks and Spencers and a Barbie shop the latest additions.The people part of Shanghai is going through massive clearance and many thousands are thrown out of their homes and workplaces roads are developed almost instantly.There is no going back once the blot on the landscape is there

[Harry]

Why would it be hard?
Without the buildings and work, you won't get the people.

[ChrisGeorge]

The old buildings on Shanghai's waterfront are very reminicent of the Pier Head . If you watch the opening sequence of Empire of the Sun a movie from a book by J G Ballard who grew up in Shanghai you can see the shots of The Bund ( Shanghai's Pier Head)
Since the end of the cultural revolution there has been amazing building development in Shanghai but most on the Pudong side of the river. The iconic buildings on the Bund are in amazing shape and the Chinese are proud of the heritage value of the original buildings.New towers are all over the city some 88 stories high with open atriums and nightclubs on the penthouse floor this is all good but they also have 20 million people living in Shanghai- and that is just the legals so there are plenty of takers for apartments and office space. It would be hard to justify any sort of similar development in Liverpool and the one thing that Chinese want is a return on their investment either money out or people in.
Last time I visited and I have been there many times it had become very westernised with a Marks and Spencers and a Barbie shop the latest additions.The people part of Shanghai is going through massive clearance and many thousands are thrown out of their homes and workplaces roads are developed almost instantly.There is no going back once the blot on the landscape is there

Here's a Google of images of Shanghai's Bund showing the older buildings and the more modern buildings that have been more recently added to their Pier Head-style waterfront. I agree that there is some similarity to Liverpool's Pier Head.

Chris

[Ged]

The similarities with one of our twin cities has not gone un-noticed by the people who can do something about it and are trying to. These images are in what is becoming a marveled at structure, our new museum.

USE THE SCROLL BAR BELOW TO SEE THE FULL PICTURES




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You know, it is commonly known that familiarity can breed contempt and I often think we beat ourselves up sometimes. All I see are people from other nations oohing and wowing at what we have in and around the Pier Head now including the new museum. I know as I have spoken with them, I make it my interest to.

What I remember of the Pier Head in the 70s, my playground (amongst others) is yes, having a laugh and a good run around the place but it was fume and smoke filled with the buses - the Albert Dock was dereliction at its worst with mud filled docks and then in the 90s the Pier Head became desolate.

I was down there at dusk over the weekend watching the crane putting the new landing stage pylons in and even then in the mild autumn night it was packed with people coming and going, criss crossing, taking photographs etc - many obviously not from Liverpool, not even from the UK. It must be one of the most photographed places anywhere.

[Peter McGurk]

Before all the monstrosities were built!

Even as a kid I can remember being just a bit disappointed by the 'skyline' on the Mersey. I remember coming in on the Manx Maid (the boat in the picture??) from holidays on the IOM and the Liver Buildings seemed a bit like a pimple on a pool table. Miles and miles of flat 'urban landscape'.

There was a study done in the 60s into how the city might develop to frame the Pier Head Buildings, either by building a backdrop of tall buildings or by building waves of taller buildings either side of the Liver Buildings - like long bookends with the Pier Head as the centrepiece. It keeps the link with the past but builds on for the future.

Many other global cities have done the same, some more successfully than others - notably Sydney and even New York where the focal point of a composition is the Opera House and Bridge in one case and the Statue of Liberty in the other.

There's no point in standing still. Even the Liver Buildings were a 'monstrosity' to some when it was built (and it committed today's cardinal sin of filling in a dock). But it sent out the message that Liverpool was fit, healthy and open for business and today's skyline should do the same.

Liverpool's skyline is getting stronger and the better for it.

[Waterways]

There's no point in standing still. Even the Liver Buildings were a 'monstrosity' to some when it was built (and it committed the cardinal sin of filling in a dock). But it sent out the message that Liverpool was fit, healthy and open for business and today's skyline should do the same.

Liverpool's skyline is getting stronger and the better for it.

The rejection by the city's Lib-Dems of the Brunswick Quay Tower was criminal. It would have been built by now. The city shot itself in the foot.

The filling of historic George's Dock was criminal indeed. The Three Graces would have been far better behind the dock giving an animated water feature in front - the dock with small boats. All these three monolithic buildings have done is create dead space around them. The Pier Head has had 4 complexions in my lifetime - it never seems to work no matter what they do. I hope this new reincarnation works. The Strand behind the Three Graces needs a lot doing to it to create animation. It needs cafes, etc, not faceless offices. The inner motorway, that was partially built along there needs removing. It also divides the Albert Dock from the main bulk of the centre - a real dumb idea and one of the few parts of the 1960s Shankland plan to get built. What was teh city thinking of when they adopted the ideas of this lunatic?

[Waterways]

People are far too precious about everything in this city, you would think we lived in Venice or Florence the way people go on about out tedious 200 metre long "waterfront".

It can be like Venice if the dock waters are developed properly and prevented from being filled in. The potential is enormous.

[Waterways]

There's no point in standing still. Even the Liver Buildings were a 'monstrosity' to some when it was built (and it committed today's cardinal sin of filling in a dock).

They get filled on a regular basis. Even in a World Heritage Site Buffer Zone. Disgusting. This abomination borders Liverpool Waters - now that is going to be a big success now isn't it? This now, with the Sandon Dock plant, ensures the dock waters will remain just the south end and up to central for leisure and resident expansion. What a waste! They no vision. Today.....

£200m United Utilities waste treatment plant for Wellington Dock approved A NEW £200m waste treatment plant will be built on the banks of the River Mersey to continue improving its water quality. United Utilities was yesterday given planning permission for the new complex in Liverpool’s northern docklands. The scheme involves draining Wellington Dock and partially reclaiming it to create a huge plant capable of handling 11,000 litres of wastewater a second – the equivalent of re-fuelling the average family car 200 times every second. As part of the new improvements, sections of Sandon Dock will also be upgraded and the existing outfall will be extended into the River Mersey resulting in dispersing treated waste water even further into the estuary to meet new EU standards. The new plant must be built by 2016 after United Utilities was prosecuted by the Environment Agency for polluting the Mersey. Sarah Jakubiak of United Utilities said Wellington Dock was the only available site for the development. It falls within the buffer zone for the World Heritage Site (WHS), and English Heritage had expressed concerns about the scheme. However, Ms Jakubiak said English Heritage had withdrawn their objections after United Utilities had presented their plans to a recent monitoring mission to the WHS by Unesco. Liverpool council said yesterday that it was prepared to approve the plans for the plant because of the exceptional circumstances and because it was desperately needed.

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/...#ixzz1j9PHnTii

Sandon Dock was filled to create a waste sewage plant for "Manchester". In London they are building the Super Sewer than is a massive pipe put under the bed of the River Thames and both banks of the river empty into it. It takes sewage to a treatment pant nearer to the sea.

Liverpool could have done the same by laying a pipe in the river bed and taking sewage and waste to nearer Liverpool Bay.