Orange Parade, London Road 1969

[Colin Wilkinson]

I had never come across the annual Orange marches until I came to Liverpool. My first experience was when I worked in Seel Street in 1974 and heard an incredible thumping of drums and the wail of bagpipes. Rushing up to Berry Street, I was mesmerised by a long procession of pipers, drummers, baton carriers [...]

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[Pennylane]

The Orange Lodge was nothing unusual where i lived , they still marched in the 80's and still do today , sectarianism seems strange to an outsider , by outsider i mean someone who wasn't brought up with it . i was brought up with it all my life .. I was Catholic my friends were in the Orange Lodge , every Sunday or every other Sunday we'd cease to be mates , and call each other terrible names , they would paint obcenties on our Church doors , mostly it was LOL that stood for Loyal Orange Lodge , we'd call them Orange King Billy Ba$tards !
My mother had a huge statue of Our Lady that got displayed in the window , overlooking the square where the Lodge gathered for their march , as they were coming through the tenements my mum would stand on our landing with her medal on a chain hanging over the landing ..
The 12th or July was the worse , the tension was terrible , our next door neighbour who was prostestant , told my dad that Catholics robbed the houses of protestants while they were all in Southport , i remember my Mother fuming at this remark !
Anyway the 12th came , and i will never forget our neighbours T.V. and furniture all crammed into our living room , he was ranting and raving when he come home from Southport , he knocked at our flat and was telling my mum , when my dad went to see him ..
He said ' here you are lad , a Catholic was minding them for you in case you were burgled ' !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm not sure what happened after that , i was only a kid , but the neighbour never made anymore anti Catholic remarks after that ...

[Colin Wilkinson]

Great story! I was shocked by some of the graffiti when I arrrived in 1970 - slogans painted on walls denouncing the Pope (Down with Popery) and Catholic ones proclaiming him (including one on the walls of the Met Cathedral - 'God Bless the Pope'). As you say, all rather strange to an outsider.

[Pennylane]

It still happens today Colin , My girls don't know what i'm talking about when i tell them these stories , i stopped it with my kids , but some don't and it becomes generational , like in Northern Ireland , they kids are taught hatred from an early age . If the parents don't stop it , who will ? Although things have improved greatly , it does still exist .

[wsteve55]

It's gone pretty quiet now,but there's still some, who would like to start it off again!

[Pennylane]

It's gone pretty quiet now,but there's still some, who would like to start it off again!

Oh no Steve , I worked very hard bringing my kids up to know that creed.. colour.. rich or poor , we are all human beings , and should respect each other .. They can't comprehend religous or racial hatered at all , it has to stop with the kids , it can't be generational .....

[Ged]

Woodstock Gardens with thanks to Bernard Fallon.




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[Ged]

Taken by Harry Ainscough - owned by the LRO.






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[Ged]

Let's hope we never get back to bottles getting lobbed on London Road. We'd see the lodge going along Netherfield Road from our classroom windows on Prince Edwin Street. Drunkeness down by Exchange Station after getting back from Southport. I remember one person missing that big pole they'd throw up in the air. As far as I was concerned, it was just a band, I loved the scotchies, didn't know the significance, probably the best way. My mam would say' You stay away from that Tugboat tonight' - I never did, she thought there'd be trouble but it was our patch where our gang drank so we were ok.

Still took my kids to watch them if we chanced upon them while up at Everton Park - just a band to them too. Mind you, did curse them once when stuck in traffic on Moss Street for about half an hour.

[bidston]

i worked in the telephone managers office in derby house 1968/9, my big mate was king billy mad, anyway gets to the 12th and he says come with me lunchtime for a great time and free food, the lot, he takes me to central station ( i think ) to see the orange lodge off to southport, fantastic, what a great time and free scram, told my mam when i got home and she went mental, Irish catholic family?

[Waterways]

I have no time for this Irish organisation, the Orange Order, in any way shape or form. They are based on hate - they hate Catholics. It is working class. The educated, intelligent, middles cases of Liverpool wanted nothing to do with them, and they never operated in middle class districts.

I have no time for people who hate others, be they Catholic, Muslim, or whatever.

Big business in Liverpool silently encouraged it to keep the working class split - divide and rule.

If an organisation decided to march in the streets who hated Muslims and shouted obscenities outside mosques they would be banned from marching. So why does this band of Catholic haters, who would shout obscenities when passing Catholic churches and schools be allowed to march?

This Irish outfit has no place in modern Liverpool. If they feel so much about this organisation of hate then they should go to Ulster with the rest of the idiots.

They should not be prominent in our history - only worthy of the odd mention, because they did and do actually embarrassingly exist.

[Waterways]

Great story! I was shocked by some of the graffiti when I arrrived in 1970 - slogans painted on walls denouncing the Pope (Down with Popery)

The antagonists were the protestants - bigots. Coming from the south end we never saw much of it. It was mainly in the north end. The Dingle Orange Lodge had a police Land Rover in the front with police all along its march in case of trouble. If this march was such a threat to the breach of peace, the police's main concern is keeping this, it should not have been allowed to march.

[Waterways]

It's gone pretty quiet now,but there's still some, who would like to start it off again!

People are too intelligent for that these days. Or are they?

[Pennylane]

People are too intelligent for that these days. Or are they?

Well i sincerely hope they are WW .. But i seem to remember an incident in Northern Ireland , not so long ago , it was the same year my little girl started school , 2001 i think it was , the Protestants would'nt let they little Catholic kids walk through their area to get to school .. But in saying that , i thought the Catholic parents were just as bad for putting their little children through a terrifying experience , when they could so easily have taken another route .

[Waterways]

Well i sincerely hope they are WW .. But i seem to remember an incident in Northern Ireland , not so long ago , it was the same year my little girl started school , 2001 i think it was , the Protestants would'nt let they little Catholic kids walk through their area to get to school .. But in saying that , i thought the Catholic parents were just as bad for putting their little children through a terrifying experience , when they could so easily have taken another route .

With all due respect, we are not Irish. I personally have Irish connections from the famine which is now getting on for 200 years ago. We have just discovered that part of our family date from 1557 in the Lake District. We are mixed like the rest of Liverpudlians, with Irish way down the list. I do not consider myself Irish in any way whatsoever. I have no connections with Ireland.

That island, which most is a foreign country and not even in the British Commonwealth, has a troubled past and present. As one Irishman said to me, "the Irish have a problem with Christianity". It is not our business in Liverpool to engage in it. No more than us engaging in the problems of other countries. And although Ulster is officially in the UK, it is realistically not. Look at the politics of the place. The Labour Party is not even set up there and they are the ruling party in the UK. It is different, it is not the same as us. Ulster is a foreign country inside the UK - still a colony in effect.