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Thread: St. Peter's Church, Church Street

  1. #1

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    Here is a picture of St Peters, source unknown to me



    And here is a picture of the cross in the pavement in Church street where the high altar once stood.




  2. #2
    PhilipG
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    Default The Cross in Church Street.

    I know David Lewis in his book "Churches of Liverpool" says that the cross is on the site of the High Altar of St Peter's.
    The truth is that the cross is just there to remind passers-by of the church, and while it might just be inside the former grounds of the church, the church itself was set further back.
    As this map shows.

    Extract from Alan Godfrey reprint of the OS Liverpool Sheet 29, 1848-64.
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    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    I know David Lewis in his book "Churches of Liverpool" says that the cross is on the site of the High Altar of St Peter's.
    The truth is that the cross is just there to remind passers-by of the church, and while it might just be inside the former grounds of the church, the church itself was set further back.
    As this map shows.

    Extract from Alan Godfrey reprint of the OS Liverpool Sheet 29, 1848-64.
    Hi Philip

    That is my understanding as well, Philip.

    Chris
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  4. #4
    PhilipG
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge View Post
    Hi Philip

    That is my understanding as well, Philip.

    Chris
    Yes, it's a case of "when the legend becomes greater than the truth, print the legend".
    I might be mis-quoting somewhat!

    "Churches of Liverpool" should be bought for the photos, not for the text.
    I'm mis-quoting again, but that was one of the reviews.

  5. #5
    theninesisters
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    A bit of info on the bells from St Peters:

    • 1704: Church consecrated

    • 1707: Back four bells cast

    • 1724: Front four bells cast

    • 1800: The first peal in Liverpool was rung here. Grandsire Triples.

    • 1830: Bells dispersed when the 1830 peal was erected. Three of the 1707 bells were sent to St John, Knotty Ash (35½” the fifth), St Catherine Abercromby Square (36½” the sixth) and the tenor bell was sent to St Augustine Everton (52”). One of the 1724 bells found its way to St. John Liverpool (39”). The bell at St Catherine Abercromby Square had been broken up by 1928 (Cheetham) and the church demolished in 1966. St. Augustine Everton was destroyed by enemy bombing in May 1941 and St. John Liverpool was demolished in 1899 - the site now occupied by St. George’s Hall.
    The bell at St. John Knotty Ash still exists.

    The new 1830 ring of bells was first rung on Sunday April 11th 1830, the original 1830 trebles were recast in 1839 as the were found too weak


    • 1905: Last peal at St Peter’s.

    • c1920: The bells were removed from the tower by Taylor’s. After being stored both at Taylor’s and Mears’ and after tuning they were rehung at St. Helens Parish Church, although it was considered for a while to hang them at St. Barnabas Penny Lane, but this did not come to fruition as the vicar of Penny Lane at the time thought the tower not strong enough.

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    Senior Member ayjaykay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    I know David Lewis in his book "Churches of Liverpool" says that the cross is on the site of the High Altar of St Peter's.
    The truth is that the cross is just there to remind passers-by of the church, and while it might just be inside the former grounds of the church, the church itself was set further back.
    As this map shows.

    Extract from Alan Godfrey reprint of the OS Liverpool Sheet 29, 1848-64.
    That map has 'Tarlton Street' on it. Isn't it Tarleton Street (with an 'e') nowadays?

  7. #7
    PhilipG
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    Default History of St Peter's.

    Paul has compiled a very comprehensive history on toxteth.net:

    http://www.toxteth.net/places/liverp...t%20peters.htm

    I made a small contribution.

  8. #8
    MissInformed
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jona76 View Post
    A bit of info on the bells from St Peters:

    • 1704: Church consecrated

    • 1707: Back four bells cast

    • 1724: Front four bells cast

    • 1800: The first peal in Liverpool was rung here. Grandsire Triples.

    • 1830: Bells dispersed when the 1830 peal was erected. Three of the 1707 bells were sent to St John, Knotty Ash (35½” the fifth), St Catherine Abercromby Square (36½” the sixth) and the tenor bell was sent to St Augustine Everton (52”). One of the 1724 bells found its way to St. John Liverpool (39”). The bell at St Catherine Abercromby Square had been broken up by 1928 (Cheetham) and the church demolished in 1966. St. Augustine Everton was destroyed by enemy bombing in May 1941 and St. John Liverpool was demolished in 1899 - the site now occupied by St. George’s Hall.
    The bell at St. John Knotty Ash still exists.

    The new 1830 ring of bells was first rung on Sunday April 11th 1830, the original 1830 trebles were recast in 1839 as the were found too weak


    • 1905: Last peal at St Peter’s.

    • c1920: The bells were removed from the tower by Taylor’s. After being stored both at Taylor’s and Mears’ and after tuning they were rehung at St. Helens Parish Church, although it was considered for a while to hang them at St. Barnabas Penny Lane, but this did not come to fruition as the vicar of Penny Lane at the time thought the tower not strong enough.
    you and your bells!!

  9. #9
    theninesisters
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    It's all good and rare information

  10. #10
    Senior Member christy's Avatar
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    I like the story about nobody being able to decide on the design for the doorways so they used all four. Two can be seen in this picture - one with a full pediment and one with a broken one.

    The cross is interesting in the pavement because church street is actually much wider than it was when the church was there and I wonder what was located above the cross. It is at least in the churchyard area if not below a wall or something. Would be interesting to see 2 maps overlayed.

  11. #11
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ayjaykay View Post
    That map has 'Tarlton Street' on it. Isn't it Tarleton Street (with an 'e') nowadays?
    Hi ayjaykay

    You are correct. The family name was Tarleton, a powerful merchant family who grew to prominence in the affairs of Liverpool in the later 17th Century. I also noted that the "e" was missing on the map. John Tarleton was a mayor of Liverpool in the 1760's known as the "Great T" and his son was General Sir Banastre Tarleton, M.P. for Liverpool, who first made his reputation as a lieutenant colonel in the American War for Independence (1776-1783).

    Chris
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  12. #12
    PhilipG
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    The correct spelling of Tarleton is on the later maps.

    I'll post the 1890 & 1924 maps later (off out now).
    The side wall of St Peter's aligns with the front wall of Woolworth's, but at a slight angle.
    The cross is a few feet in front of the building (will check & see how far).
    Besides, weren't altars always under the tower, or at least at the west end of the church?
    Which is where St Peter's tower was.

  13. #13
    Senior Member taffy's Avatar
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    Default Postion of Church Altars

    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    The correct spelling of Tarleton is on the later maps.

    I'll post the 1890 & 1924 maps later (off out now).
    The side wall of St Peter's aligns with the front wall of Woolworth's, but at a slight angle.
    The cross is a few feet in front of the building (will check & see how far).
    Besides, weren't altars always under the tower, or at least at the west end of the church?
    Which is where St Peter's tower was.

    Altars can be anywhere in a church but the principal high altar is usually always at the nominal east end of the church. This has to do with facing Jerusalem. Interestingly St Nicholas at the Pierhead has the altar at the west end nearly under the tower. The churchwas designed after WW2 damage and rebuilding

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    Senior Member ayjaykay's Avatar
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    Aren't they reopening an 'arcade' through to School Lane as part of the Paradise Street developments? Will that go through the current HMV building (former Woolworths)?

  15. #15
    Senior Member christy's Avatar
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    Dont know if its true but I heard it was going to be the old street at the side of WH Smiths - part of next. Hard to know which it will be. HMV have avery thin entrance and would have little shop left and next have their escalators on the side that would be taken from them. Cant see either wanting to lose floorspace so I wonder if one of them will be ,moving into the new development?

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