Mass Grave in Old Swan

**owenb** · 08-20-2009

The bodies found in the mass grave were not from the Irish Famine, Because some of the bodies found were in led lined coffins and if they were poor there is no way they would of been in led coffins?? And all the remains were taken to Anfield crem to be burned and buried in Anfield cem.

Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge

Hi all

There appears to be a strong school of thought that the bodies may have been those of Irish famine victims. I remember Waterways was asking recently where Irish famine victims were buried. The following is from
Manchester Irish.com in April of this year:

FAMINE IRISH: MASS MURDER IN LIVERPOOL

A fascinating piece by Peter Berresford Ellis recently appeared in the Irish Post. In 1973 a mass grave was found in Old Swan in Liverpool. In total the remains of 3,561 bodies were found. Journalists were kept away from the site and the Home Office ordered the immediate cremation of the bodies.

Merseyside criminologist Keith Andrews has investigated the case and believes this is a case of mass murder,

"...'Containment Squads' moved in on the diseased and starving immigrants, removed their children, then herded the Irish men and women to a containment camp in a field on the outskirts of Liverpool. They were then systematically shot and buried in unmarked coffins".

Berresford Ellis states:

"If Andrews can prove his contention, we are talking about one of the greatest murders of Irish men and women since Cromwellian times".

**blackvelvet** · 09-10-2009

I know the thread has kind of fizzled out, but I would greatly appreciate any more memories or general opinions on the grave (however vague) as I am studying the site as part of my degree. Many thanks!

**Ronijayne** · 09-10-2009

Who did use lead lined coffins in those days? Would that not narrow it down?

**Spike** · 09-10-2009

The Irish would have just been put in a big pit and buried, thats how it was done

What was the church by St George's hall. was it St John's after the gardens? the gardens where a cemetery so could they be from there. I think this has been discussed before.

One thing not mentioned is that St Oswalds is a Catholic church, would the buried in the mass grave be Catholics? The church is older than the mass grave.

**hmtmaj** · 09-10-2009

Originally Posted by blackvelvet

I know the thread has kind of fizzled out, but I would greatly appreciate any more memories or general opinions on the grave (however vague) as I am studying the site as part of my degree. Many thanks!

Fortinian done a great job investigating, see previous page, maybe he can help you with your study

**Waterways** · 09-10-2009

Originally Posted by Spike

The Irish would have just been put in a big pit and buried, thats how it was done

What was the church by St George's hall. was it St John's after the gardens? the gardens where a cemetery so could they be from there. I think this has been discussed before.

The church was demolished around 1899, after the burials. A number of French prisoners of war were buried there and a plaque is there to note that. The French embassy once a year have a ceremony in St. John's Gardens.

**wsteve55** · 09-10-2009

I think most,if not all of the bodies,remain in St. John's gardens!

**anonymouse** · 09-29-2009

I've just had a trawl through Ged's site www.inacityliving.piczo.com/ and came upon a pic of Grant Gardens, the site of the old Necropolis cemetery. It occurred to me that the gardens are now less than half the size they were originally, so what did they do with all the remains? Surely they must have been re-interred in consecrated ground - St. Oswalds maybe?

**wsteve55** · 09-29-2009

Originally Posted by anonymouse

I've just had a trawl through Ged's site www.inacityliving.piczo.com/ and came upon a pic of Grant Gardens, the site of the old Necropolis cemetery. It occurred to me that the gardens are now less than half the size they were originally, so what did they do with all the remains? Surely they must have been re-interred in consecrated ground - St. Oswalds maybe?

Hi Anon,
this has been on here before,somewhere,but I can tell you that recent ground investigations, for the failed Merseytram scheme,in the area of Grant gardens,came across human remains! I suppose you can conclude from this,that though some bodies may have been moved,many weren't!This wasn't the only time so called sacred ground,was "landscaped" or built on,and the original back wall,is still there!

**fortinian** · 09-29-2009

Hmm... looking at the 1930s map on Leverpoole.co.uk and comparing it to modern Google Maps seems to show that Grand Gardens is on exactly the same floorplan as the Necropolis... i.e. it hasn't gotten any bigger or smaller.

**Ged** · 09-29-2009

I used to think it looked smaller now but I think you're right going by the original back wall too.

**fortinian** · 09-30-2009

Weird how our perceptions can be altered... I wonder if it's the same effect as what happens to Cadbury Creme Eggs every year??

**ILuvIlDivo** · 12-31-2009

What a thoroughly interesting topic and a brilliant read!!! I've enjoyed going through it from beginning to end and look forward to popping back in for more. I imagine/hope that this one of those subjects where you 'researchers' must feel like a 'dog with a bone' (no pun intended, honest

) and won't 'let go' until you find some real answers.

Well I think you've all done a great job up to now, and would like to say a huge THANK YOU to everyone for their hard work.

Drinks all round to you!! ......