The Vines, Lime St-Tunnels

[MissInformed]

Hi
I was just reading in Freddy o connor's book, A Pub on Every Corner, that there are underground passages under the vines in lime st that lead to the mersey, supposedly used for smuggling.
It says they are one of many in pubs around Liverpool....any ideas where the others are??

[ChrisGeorge]

Hi
I was just reading in Freddy o connor's book, A Pub on Every Corner, that there are underground passages under the vines in lime st that lead to the mersey, supposedly used for smuggling.
It says they are one of many in pubs around Liverpool....any ideas where the others are??

Hello MissInformed

These rumors of smugglers tunnels seem to be just that, local legend and lore, like the smugglers tunnels that were said to extend from Mother Redcap's at Egremont under Wallasey to the Red Noses near New Brighton. As with the distance between Lime Street and the Mersey, these are both considerable distances, so my hunch is that such tunnels never existed.

Chris

[PhilipG]

And of course, Lime Street was at the edge of town in the early days.

[theninesisters]

Been down under the Vines a few years ago, they're all blocked up now although they did once go through town down to the Docks. We had a good nose around but there wasn't a sniff of anything we could accidently knock down to gain access to more tunnels.

[MissInformed]

wow! fantastic pics jona!!!!!!!

thank you for proving me right!!!

[Kev]

Yes fantastic snaps, exciting stuff

[Waterways]

Been down under the Vines a few years ago, they're all blocked up now although they did once go through town down to the Docks. We had a good nose around but there wasn't a sniff of anything we could accidently knock down to gain access to more tunnels.

I don't believe they went to the docks at all. It is too far. If they did where would they emerge at the docks, in the docks estate? The docks were built on wooden piles into the river. It was more like they were storage tunnels - a part of the cellar.

[MissInformed]

if they didn't go to the docks, what would they be for guys?

i know alot of people think smuggling is a big myth, but I am a bit baffled as to what other uses would be.... any thoughts?

oh...and are there any others under pubs like this??

[Waterways]

if they didn't go to the docks, what would they be for guys?

i know alot of people think smuggling is a big myth, but I am a bit baffled as to what other uses would be.... any thoughts?

Forget tunnels to the docks.

[PhilipG]

if they didn't go to the docks, what would they be for guys?

i know alot of people think smuggling is a big myth, but I am a bit baffled as to what other uses would be.... any thoughts?

oh...and are there any others under pubs like this??

Cellars.

[adhiggins]

There are tunnels under the pub I live above (The Bears Paw in Edge Hill) although these are more than likely part of Williamsons, Ive actually seen the branch which goes off from the cellar, but its all filled in atm, Ive heard rumours though from a number of local sources, that the tunnels go right down to at least Lewis's, someone I know claims to have accessed them from a tomb in St Marys graveyard over the road, and came out near Lewis's, Liverpool was a MAJOR port so smuggling operations would have been huge. Ive been reading Haunted Liverpool tonight, and Tom Slemen makes reference to tunnels beneath Renshaw Street under Grand Central? Anyone any information on this?


Cheers,



Andrew

[Waterways]

Take no notice of Slemen, he makes thing up. The Williamson's Tunnels' do go a long way. I doubt to Lewis'. There are vast caverns at Copperas Hill from the old copper mines - copperas give the game away. They have been sealed up. Williamson's may have broken into the old copper mine tunnels and caverns.

If they do go that far they could put a underground Merseyrail line down there with the odd station, and then at last the tunnels would be used for something useful.

Smuggling? That far from the port? Nah!

[Davec]

My dear auld Ma used to work in the Pig & Whistle many years ago and I remember her telling me that the pub's cellar used to flood out at high tide.
Mind you being that close to the river it shouldn't be a surprise, but I got the impression the flooding served a 'purpose'.

[Waterways]

My dear auld Ma used to work in the Pig & Whistle many years ago and I remember her telling me that the pub's cellar used to flood out at high tide.
Mind you being that close to the river it shouldn't be a surprise, but I got the impression the flooding served a 'purpose'.

On Chapel Street that would be the old drainage tunnels. They emptied directly into the river. I am not sure if sewage was put down them as well. Which I'm sure it was.

Sewage was emptied directly into the river until the Sandon Dock sewage plant was built in the 1980s

Many houses in Birkenhead had their cellars fill on high Spring tides.

[Cadfael]

Take no notice of Slemen, he makes thing up. The Williamson's Tunnels' do go a long way. I doubt to Lewis'. There are vast caverns at Copperas Hill from the old copper mines - copperas give the game away. They have been sealed up. Williamson's may have broken into the old copper mine tunnels and caverns.

If they do go that far they could put a underground Merseyrail line down there with the odd station, and then at last the tunnels would be used for something useful.

Smuggling? That far from the port? Nah!

When we started off with the Tunnels group, we learnt lots about Williamson and his tunnelling around Edge Hill. One of the area's we also concentrated on was Wolstenholme Square and we found that his office was actually where the Cream nightclub is now. Around the back, you can still see a bricked up window and sandstone plinth - this used to be his 3 story building.

We asked Cream if they had come across any cellers and they had, but had poured concrete in them in parts for their needs, but what we did see was archways exactly like Paddington in Edge Hill.

I also have a newspaper clipping from the Echo in the 60's to say that upon doing excavation for the RC Cathedral, they stumbled upon sandstone arches and tunnels far underneath the workhouse.

Coupled with the fact that Charles Hand in 1926 toured the Paddington section and walked for 'over a mile' without finding a boundary, I would say that Williamson must have at one point, pick axe'd in to Liverpool from Edge Hill.