Liverpool's Seven Hills?

[Kev]

Thanks Taffy, I'm sure we've had this conversation before. Maybe I've asked this before too: My nan and grandad both Lived on Argyle Road off Russell Road and they said their house had a stream running underneath. Any ideas?

[taffy]

Thanks Taffy, I'm sure we've had this conversation before. Maybe I've asked this before too: My nan and grandad both Lived on Argyle Road off Russell Road and they said their house had a stream running underneath. Any ideas?

I suspect your grandparents are right. I don't know the exact course of the streams in that area in relation to modern streets but nearby Island Farm was so named as you had to cross a few streams to get to it.

[Howie]

Hi Kev

Just got back from 5 days in a city that is built on seven hills - Sheffield. Apologies in advance to Waterways but I've been travelling about on one of those strange things there (pictured below) and thought they were quite good.

[Kev]

Thats not u in the window is it H?

[Howie]

Thats not u in the window is it H?

No Kev, I was holding the camera.

PS Have posted a couple more snaps of Sheffield here.

[Kev]

No Kev, I was holding the camera.

PS Have posted a couple more snaps of Sheffield here.

I thought u were giving a big cheesy smile mate, your sheff pics are nice!

[Waterways]

Hi Kev

Just got back from 5 days in a city that is built on seven hills - Sheffield. Apologies in advance to Waterways but I've been travelling about on one of those strange things there (pictured below) and thought they were quite good.

A pity when they are: stuck in traffic jams, cause traffic jams, trundle at walking pace in rush hour, shake adjacent buildings, screech around corners and look ugly with all the overhead wires. For efficient train systems you need grade separation - in other words, uninterrupted progress and separated from other types of transport and people That usually means underground or elevated rail systems in congested centres.

Liverpool doesn't need such expensive and nasty things as we have a grade separated metro system that runs underground in Birkenhead and Liverpool centres. We just need to expand what we have, a system Manchester, Sheffield, etc, wanted but could not afford. Notice that all the top cities in the world have underground metro systems. I don't see London, NY, Munich, etc, scrapping the rapid transit metros and going 100% for trams. We should not go backwards. We should spend transport money where it is need most -in expanding Merseyrail in the centres and inner-city districts.

Don't be sucked in by smart tram cabins - a trams is still a tram, still with the inherent negative aspects that made the UK get rid 50 years ago.

[Waterways]

Right WW,
that ran from Moss lake,which was somewhere around Islington,down William Brown st,along Williamson sqr,Whitechapel,through to Paradise st, then into the "pool". The remains of a footbridge over this, were dug up during construction of the Macdonalds building(formerly Horne Bros,etc),which is at the junction of Lord st.

The Cavern Club, not far from Paradise St, was famous for flooding in the toilets when the tide was in. I hope it was the tide.

Look at Lord St, it runs down to Paradise St, as do all other streets around. Where the water course was.

[wsteve55]

Yeh,
I remember the Cavern well! The longer you stayed,the wetter your kek's got!(in the days of flares)I know it didn't smell like seawater?????

[taffy]

The only photo I recall showing one of the streams was in the small valley alongside Speke Rd where the incinerator plant later tram/ bus depot was sited. I'll see if I can find it.

In Garston you can tell where the streams were by the local topography. The slopes of Speke Rd, St Mary's Rd and Church Rd all meet at the bottom of the valley formed by the stream. This was one reason why the Mona castle pub had to be demolished. Part of the foundations were built on rock and the other on the river bed. Hence the building subsided. The same has happened to a less extent to the old Queen's pub, now the Stables.

If you type Garston into the search box in

http://www.old-maps.co.uk

and select the Lancashire Garston and look at the 1849 map, you can see the route of the streams coming into Garston. You'll recall photographing the old Garston Mill site opposite St Michael's Church. The water mill of course was sited next to the stream which then made its way along the route of Dale St ( ie valley street) to the river Mersey.

Here's the photo of the one branch of the Speke Rd Garston Stream with the incinerator plant in the background. Photo courtesy Gasrton Historical Society

[AngelCake]

This thread has been quite an interesting read. I'm suprised at the amount of secret rivers that run through Liverpool , you'd expect more subsidence.

[fortinian]

Right WW,
that ran from Moss lake,which was somewhere around Islington,down William Brown st,along Williamson sqr,Whitechapel,through to Paradise st, then into the "pool". The remains of a footbridge over this, were dug up during construction of the Macdonalds building(formerly Horne Bros,etc),which is at the junction of Lord st.

Sorry, you're wrong about the location of the Moss Lake.

The Moss Lake was not near Islington, it was the current site of Crown Street/Abercromby Square. Though it is shown on the map below I believe it is slightly too far south and that the 'Reservoir' was part of the Moss Lake.

I think you might be getting confused with Moss Street which has nothing to do with the Moss Lake.

(shown on this map: http://www.leverpoole.co.uk/1.001/m/...itycentre.shtm)

Picton in one of his Liverpool Geological Society papers says that the Moss Lake Fields had a seasonal* stream running off them towards London Road/William Brown Street called the 'Styrpul'. This Styrpul would join the stream running into the Lyverpul along Paradsise street.

Interestingly the Styrpul could be Anglo-Saxon in origin, 'Styr' (or Stir) meaning agitated water, ideal for describing a fast flowing seasonal stream.

*by seasonal I mean when it was raining during winter and the Moss Lake overflowed the stream would flow more visibly.

[fortinian]

A selection of pictures from my archive.... to any copyright holders I don't know where they came from (but I imagine some of them are out of copyright by now).

Showing the hills and 'pool' in relation to the castle.