New Undergroud Station in Church Street?

[jc_everton]

Robt - your dismissal of design considerations sums up the low standards of design in modern Britain. There is no reason to reopen Exchange Station other than the fact it is a fantastic, unique building. What might be a good idea is to use it as a temporary station while Moorfields receives a much needed facelift, and possible expansion.

Your second dismissal of me "not knowing how lucky I am" is again, tosh. I may not have seen the busiest train stations in the world, but as far as I'm concerned, you WILL struggle to get a seat if you get on at Moorfields at peak time - and this is simply not good enough. I don't care about 2 carriages to Manchester at this moment in time - thats for another day. Although that is a disgrace too.

Merseywail - very good thinking out the box - this is what is required here, but its not our jobs to solve the logistical land problem of Central. We look at Central and think "och, that can't be worked on, its impossible!" - it's defeatist and negative. For every problem, there's a solution, thats how Merseytravel should think. Too many people are content with mediocrity and giving in at the first stage. This also applies to design standards. They've fell so low over the past 50 years or so, it is painful. Imagination has all but vanished. And don't anyone come out with all that "get in the real world" malarkey. Tosh. This whole country could do with a major kick up the backside - maybe future terrorist attacks might spark that. Wake people up a bit.

[baldyman26]

What you all forget is that in he Governments eyes when it comes to Transport, Liverpool is a small insignificant little dot on the map. There probably in our lifetime will not be any new city centre stations, maybe a few minor refurbishments, but nothing new. We can't even get new trains, just give a lick of paint to the old ones. Should it not be up to the Liverpool People to lobby govenment, put pressure on our USELESS MP'S, to try to get something done.

[robt]

Robt - your dismissal of design considerations sums up the low standards of design in modern Britain. There is no reason to reopen Exchange Station other than the fact it is a fantastic, unique building.

If my statement summed up low design standards, yours must sum up low intelligence surely. A station MUST be functional, design comes after function, and that is not to say of course that you can't have both. Exchange only has beauty (which is subjective anyway).

Your second dismissal of me "not knowing how lucky I am" is again, tosh. I may not have seen the busiest train stations in the world, but as far as I'm concerned, you WILL struggle to get a seat if you get on at Moorfields at peak time - and this is simply not good enough.

I didn't say you wouldn't get a seat. A seat is a bonus - you have no entitlement to one whatsoever.

I don't care about 2 carriages to Manchester at this moment in time - thats for another day. Although that is a disgrace too.

As I thought - you only actually care about the line you use and you don't look at the bigger picture (christ, I sound like Waterways there ).

[jc_everton]

Well I explained to you why reopening Exchange was pointless, so there was some consideration towards function... So that's point 1.

Point 2...
No-one is entitled to a seat?! Jesus, your standards really are low!

This. Is. England.

This country has stooped so low... now we can't even expect a basic service, such as a seat on a train?! If our railways were nationalised and we paid nothing to use the trains, maybe, maybe... But for the money we pay, I could easily my use car to get into town... and sometimes (when I feel appropriate) I do. I expect to sit down on a train whether I'm in England, Poland, Ukraine, Italy... it makes no odds. I'm sure this is an issue that people all over the world get rightly annoyed with. But as This Is England, not Uganda, I expect a seat, no matter how long or short the journey. And thats down to one thing.... Standards.

Dog excrement all over the inner city streets? Again, standards. Its a vicious circle... kids grow up in rubbish dumps, it becomes the norm. Kids grow up with sub-standard building design, sub-standard public transport, clone towns... it becomes the norm.

Point 3... I've just took the "big picture" and nailed its balls to the wall.

[robt]

Well I explained to you why reopening Exchange was pointless, so there was some consideration towards function... So that's point 1.

Point 2...
No-one is entitled to a seat?! Jesus, your standards really are low!

This. Is. England.

This country has stooped so low... now we can't even expect a basic service, such as a seat on a train?! If our railways were nationalised and we paid nothing to use the trains, maybe, maybe... But for the money we pay, I could easily my use car to get into town... and sometimes (when I feel appropriate) I do. I expect to sit down on a train whether I'm in England, Poland, Ukraine, Italy... it makes no odds. I'm sure this is an issue that people all over the world get rightly annoyed with. But as This Is England, not Uganda, I expect a seat, no matter how long or short the journey. And thats down to one thing.... Standards.

Dog excrement all over the inner city streets? Again, standards. Its a vicious circle... kids grow up in rubbish dumps, it becomes the norm. Kids grow up with sub-standard building design, sub-standard public transport, clone towns... it becomes the norm.

Point 3... I've just took the "big picture" and nailed its balls to the wall.

Thankyou for judging my 'standards' Of which you actually know nothing. It doesn't matter what my standards are or what my (or your) opinion is, it is an indisputable fact that you have no entitlement to a seat on a train - and always has been the case.

[Kev]

Keep it friendly peeps

[jc_everton]

Well you've certainly done a good job of bringing your standards into question, thats for sure. To not expect a seat on an English train is ludicrous. It may be realistic, but to call it a "bonus" is a sad reflection of Modern England.

As I said, This Is England. Once a proud nation, now we have situations where people cannot board a train because it's too full. As a result, members of the public like your good self believe getting a seat is a "bonus". Believe it or not, I sometimes have to get this Manc-L'pool train home at peak time, and I've seen it for myself, just how rammed it gets, and in the summer it really is unpleasant. I'm not disputing the crowdedness of these trains, nor should you dispute the same problem with peak time, 3-car trains on the Northern Line. A similar joke.

My point is quite clear, by accepting the situation as "the norm", people become accustomed to it, and standing up is just "accepted". But it shouldn't be. You pay good money, you expect good service. That goes with pretty much everything in life. Surely you can see this is a valid point? And how this mentality spreads into other aspects of modern life, like a cancer.

[robt]

Well you've certainly done a good job of bringing your standards into question, thats for sure. To not expect a seat on an English train is ludicrous. It may be realistic, but to call it a "bonus" is a sad reflection of Modern England.

As I said, This Is England. Once a proud nation, now we have situations where people cannot board a train because it's too full. As a result, members of the public like your good self believe getting a seat is a "bonus". Believe it or not, I sometimes have to get this Manc-L'pool train home at peak time, and I've seen it for myself, just how rammed it gets, and in the summer it really is unpleasant. I'm not disputing the crowdedness of these trains, nor should you dispute the same problem with peak time, 3-car trains on the Northern Line. A similar joke.

My point is quite clear, by accepting the situation as "the norm", people become accustomed to it, and standing up is just "accepted". But it shouldn't be. You pay good money, you expect good service. That goes with pretty much everything in life. Surely you can see this is a valid point? And how this mentality spreads into other aspects of modern life, like a cancer.

You are really having a good rant aren't you?

I have not brought my standards into it whatsoever, I have stated some facts which you don't like. You would have more credibility if you didn't take things out of context and then exagerate them to try and make a 'point'. Especially when you try to make it personal.

I certainly will dispute your point. There is a vast, vast difference between being on a crowded train and not being able to get on one at all. Incidently, I have not mentioned Manchester to Liverpool peak services at all, so feel free to compare them to whatever you like.

No doubt you will reply with another tirade of thinly disguised personal insults, so I won't rise to them, this will be my last word on the subject until any more interesting or valid points are raised. Go on - have the last word.

[Scouseinmanc]

Hellfire - didn't expect an all out war..!

Just to clarify; when you buy a train ticket - it is indeed for a seat. I have no problem standing if the journey is purely local. However, I would not hesitate to find a seat in 1st Class, if there were none available in standard. I really don't think that majority of passengers woud even bother buying a ticket, if they thought it was a free for all.

Getting back to the point tho, it appears that most usrs wish to see a major rebuild of Central. What then would be the feasibility of utilitising some of the space on the old High Level site?

[andyk]

I am a frequent visiter to these pages,but only an ocassional contributor.
I see little point in making a point of view when it will either be ignored or condemned without reason by the few people who monopolise the forum.

I made a suggestion that part of the Central High Level site could be used as a terminus of a tram-train service from John Lennon Airport.No more far-fetched than the stuff Waterways has been promoting for longer than I care to remember.I'm convinced that people travelling from the airport to the City-centre would prefer to arrive in an airy-environemnt,rather than the over-crowed ,dank space that is Central.

A single-track spur would be relatively easy to construct with a realignement
of the existing link.The tunnel was constructed for three tracks.

Some posts on YoLiverpool give rise to hours of happy day-dreaming of how things could be.Please don't ruin things with your pathetic *****yness.

[Scouseinmanc]

I see little point in making a point of view when it will either be ignored or condemned without reason by the few people who monopolise the forum.
Some posts on YoLiverpool give rise to hours of happy day-dreaming of how things could be.Please don't ruin things with your pathetic *****yness.

Here, here Andy, quite agree

You tend to find on a lot of threads (not just on this site either), that you make a suggestion & people who think they're in the know, dismiss it entirely & come up with a 'far more suitable' answer.

I stated on Skyscraper City, that my idea was pure pie in the sky. I don't think for one minute that the rebuilding of Exchange would ever come to fruition. But it is good to hear CONSTRUCTIVE responses & not be torn apart by others who think they know so much better...

[robt]

Hellfire - didn't expect an all out war..!

Just to clarify; when you buy a train ticket - it is indeed for a seat.

Just to clarify.. the National Rail Conditions of Carriage disagree with you, of which I have attached the revevant section. The section is valid whether seat reservations are available or not.

Getting back to the point tho, it appears that most usrs wish to see a major rebuild of Central. What then would be the feasibility of utilitising some of the space on the old High Level site?

I think the feasibility of using the old high level is not even remotely likely, due to other points made in this thread such as the tunnel not actually going anywhere anymore.

andyk, I'm sure a single platform could be squeezed in at high level, but I have no idea how the line would rejoin the line to take you to the airport. But having said that, I don't know why this would be done as any rebuild/relocation of Central could take this into consideration and have it terminate in the 'new' more modern underground station.

I think people may have taken the words relocation a bit too literally - I'm pretty sure that a relocation would be built next to the existing station ie at the top of Church Street, as the current Wirral platform would remain as there is nothing wrong with it.

[Scouseinmanc]

"Just to clarify..."

Is Sarcasm your middle name, per chance?

[robt]

"Just to clarify..."

Is Sarcasm your middle name, per chance?

.

It just frustrates me (as it does to most people) when I state a fact and someone tells me it is wrong, or assumes it is my opinion. Or tells me I have low standards because they think it is how I have been socially conditioned.

[Scouseinmanc]

I actually did check it out earlier & was advised the same

So I completely understand your frustration in that regard. I'd be exactly the same. In fact, I'd be right on my soap box tbh!