Last edited by Waterways; 01-26-2009 at 05:27 PM.
The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click
Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
canals to view its modern museum describing
how it once was?
Giving Liverpool a full Metro - CLICK
Rapid-transit rail: Everton, Liverpool & Arena - CLICK
Save Royal Iris - Sign Petition
Yes it is an excellent Canal, not used now, just a ditch. I always enjoyed sailing down there very scenic in parts and interesting in others. It should be used by carrying container and bulk barges from Liverpool, that would take thousands of lorries off the roads.. Cheaper transportation and less polution.
But the Road Haulage Association have too much influence and wont allow it.
A few ships each week get to the end of the canal, just before the quays. A German ship offloaded wood in the dry dock there a year or so back. It is still used.
In the olden dayes, industrial towns clustered around ports because transportation was clumsy and expensive - Liverpool and the inland Lancashire industrial towns is an example. Cheap energy made it easy to have a port a long way from an industrial centre - the newish container transit port Felixstowe on the bottom of the English south east rural coast is an example.
Post-Panamax container ships are ships too large for the Panama Canal and are trans-ocean only they are so big. The biggest working ship in the world is a post-Panamax ship. They hold from 10,000 containers upwards. They tend to use only one port each side of the oceans - they don't hop from port to port, except one ship that travels from the Far East to the UK and Holland and maybe France as well. The cargo is very cheap per mile using these large ships. As energy costs rise these ship will predominate.
The vast bulk of the cargo transportation costs is taking the container to the ship at one end and from the ship at the other. Some containers are loaded onto smaller container ships at a Post-Panamax port to transit to other regions. The biggest cost is the road haulage cost of containers. Rail can reduce that cost, taking containers directly from the ship to container terminals in various regions keeping road haulage aspect to a minimum. Road transport would then only be a matter of a few miles.
The Manchester Ship Canal was made virtually obsolete as the port of Manchester, 46 miles from the sea, was closed down. Now the upper reaches of the canal are slowly being used again as smaller ships take cargos that previously went by road. Containers will be off loaded from Post-Panama ships and taken by smaller ships 46 miles inland. This is also being done by imported wine from north and South America for Tesco. Offloaded at Liverpool from large containers ships and up the Manchester Ship canal to a bottling plant - this all previously went by road from ports 200 to 300 miles away.
Tesco never had the foresight to put the plant on the canal banks and cut in a lay-by. It is a few miles from the canal, so road transport is needed for the last leg. The canal is underused and undersold by Peel. It is a 36 mile linear docks and port can be cut off at any point along its banks - port Warrington is proposed.
The lower reaches of the canal - Runcorn down - are heavily used.
So Victorian infrastructure of rail and canal is slowly being put back into commission - proven by the Olive Mount Cord rail link in Liverpool to double the container train throughput.
Energy is getting expensive again and to keep costs down, the trend may
reverse where industry clusters around established ports again and rail passenger travel is predominant.
Last edited by Waterways; 01-27-2009 at 12:03 PM.
The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click
Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
canals to view its modern museum describing
how it once was?
Giving Liverpool a full Metro - CLICK
Rapid-transit rail: Everton, Liverpool & Arena - CLICK
Save Royal Iris - Sign Petition
It has been some months since I have seen a Tesco shipment go up the canal but I am not saying they do not do it anymore.
If you are interested in the canal why not take a summer cruise on it.
See here for more info :-
http://www.merseyferries.co.uk/manch...scc/index.aspx
Well worth a trip and DONT forget your camera.
Phredd
In the days when we had nothing we had fun.
If tomorrow starts without me, remember I was here.
I docked in Manchester after many trips, when Harrison Line had general cargo vessels before the move to container ships and bulk carriers.
sailed from manchester twice,on the javenese prince and the pacific liberty.also took the ferry cruise from liverpool up the canal,it was great brought back some good memories.
liverbob.
I was up and down the Alley alley oh more than a few times,Everards used to send some of their old nails up there to get a free cleaning,the water was so toxic that it burnt the bottoms clean. I honestly can.t remember the amount of times I went on there,the Austility was there nearly every fortnight,we used to run to Carrickfergus and alternated between Avonmouth and Irlam for loads of aviation spirit. The Assurity used to go for gas oil which we took to Donge in France. The Athel Princess took a load of molasses to Salford docks ,I was up there on the Acavus ,a Shell tanker and I paid off up there after tramping on the Rowanmore. We were always in danger of getting hit by old prams and mattresses that the little bleeders would drop on you from the high bridges. They used to aim for the funnel. I was in a pub in Irlam when Chubby Checkers "Twist Again " was on all the Juke boxes. There was a big red nosed guy busking outside with a clarinet,somebody threw a shilling in his cap and asked him to the play "The Twist" .He answered quick as a flash "I cant Twist but I'll do my best to screw some bugger" Northern wit ,you can't beat it!
Although I am from Manchester I spent the first four years of my sea career sailing out of Liverpool and Birkenhead with Blue Funnel line from 1952 to 1956.
I joined the Manchester Progress in 1956 and what a difference from Blue Flue. She was an old ship built in 1935 and the accommodation wasn't half as good as what I had been used to but the lack of bull---t made up for it. We lived aft and our grub had to be carried from the midship galley in kits, not a very nice job on the North Atlantic in winter.
I did about six months on the Progress and then joined the Manchester Vanguard a brand new ship built for the old St.Lawrence Seaway. She was only 258 feet long so as to fit in the locks on the old seaway which were 260 feet long. She had single berth accommodation and everything was aft so there was no going outside to get to the messroom. She ran up the Great Lakes to Toronto, Hamilton, Buffalo N.Y., Cleveland Ohio, Detroit Michigan, and finished up in Chicago Illinois where she turned around and called at various other ports loading for home. Milwaukee Wisconsin, Kenosha Wisconsin, Sarnia Canada. Because the old seaway only had a draft of 14 feet we used to top off in Montreal, Three Rivers and Quebec to get down to our full draft.
She was a cracking job with good crew, good grub, good accommodation and plenty of overtime. In the winter when the Lakes iced up we ran from Liverpool to Lisbon, Tenerife and Las Palmas on charter to Yeowards, a well known Liverpool company with general cargo out and bananas, tomatoes and new potatoes home. Sometimes we loaded outwards from Dublin and Belfast with seed potatoes and bales of peat. The peat was used to pack the boxes of new potatoes.
I did over two years on her before moving on. More of that later, just off to bed.
Alec.
Good read Alec, brought back many memories. look forward to seeing some more,
BrianD
I sailed on the Manchester Merchant in 1961, we did the yanky coast, Halifax NS. St Johns NB, Norfolk Va., Hampton Roads, and some others in Chesapeake Bay, Wilmington NC, Charleston SC , Savannah Ga. Jacksonville Fla.and some others. a good run.
My mate Jack Lomax, from Bolton was Bosun on the Lake boats for many years. He is Dead now.
Hello Brian,
I did the same run on a couple of Manchester Liners, as you say "a good run" but hard work especially on deck. Just 12 hours between some ports, work all day then sea watches and arrive at another port.
I sailed with your mate Jack Lomax on the Manchester Fame for a couple of years, in fact we were watchmates. Jack was a good shipmate ex. RN. I think. His nickname was "dhobi" Jack as he was always washing his gear, he was immaculate even when we were up to our eyes in sh-t overhauling the running gear Jack looked as if he had just come out of Burtons window.
He must have become bosun after I left the Liners as he was always AB. when I knew him.
I replied to your inquiry about Jack last year on another site, BMN, but you never replied. I find that site difficult to get around as it is full of Personal Messages etc. You probably missed my reply about Jack. As I say though, a good shipmate, sorry to see that he has passed away.
Alec.
Thanks for that Brian but I don't think that I can come up with the likes of your stories.
Anyway, to carry on with my memories of the Manchester Ship Canal.
I left the Manchester Vanguard and joined the Manchester Port which was on the "yankee coast" as we called it and as Brian(Captain Kong) has described on another post. East coast of the States, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Newport News, Norfolk Virginia, Wilmington Delaware, Georgetown N.Carolina, Charlestown S. Carolina, Savannah Georgia and Jacksonville and Miami Florida. A good run, only away about two months and usually ten days in Manchester.
I got fed up with the USA and thought I would have a change and so joined the Uskmouth, a chatty old tramp which had just brought a cargo of timber from Archangel. She was what was called a "West Hartlepool Jeep" built during the war on a Canadian design. An old triple expansion steamer top speed about 10 knots all out.
We went back to Archangel and picked up another cargo of timber for Garston, (I thought that would get your attention Brian Daley). After discharge we went down to S.Wales to load coal bricks for Genoa then on to Livorno (Leghorn) to load copper pyrites for Barrow in Furness. From there back down to Cardiff to load 6,000 tons of coal for Madeira. We spent nearly two weeks there discharging. There were no cranes so the coal was discharged by our own derricks using baskets which were tipped into small lorries and sometimes horse and carts. (This was in 1959). In contrast, I had a phone call from a Greek seaman friend of mine today who has just docked in Europort, Rotterdam, with 170,000 tons of coal and expects to have finished discharge in less than three days. It makes you think.
Just off to bed again, will finish off tomorrow.
Alec.
Thanks for that fascinting insight into the working conditions faced by dockers in those bygone days of steam. Does anyone out there remember bunkering in Belfast? made Madeira look positively high tech. The poor old dockers had to run up a plack with a sack of coal on their back.
Yes Trader, Garston did strike a chord,I'll be getting stuck back into reminiscences about that lovely old place very soon,
BrianD
Hi Alec.
Thanks for all that ,
Some funny memories of that Yankee Coast when I was on the `Merchant`.
Yes Jack was in the RN first, Always a bit serious, never laughed a lot. he lived just around the corner from me about 100 yards away living with his sister. Last time I saw him he said he had a heart attack so I told him to get down to the Dreadnought Hospital at Greenwich. I never saw him again, I went away for six months on an Esso tanker and when I came home the house was empty and no sign of him or his sister. He was bosun on those small Lake boats, `Faith?.`
I was in Savannah,on the `Merchant`, in a club, had a few bevies, I came out and going to walk back to the ship when a car pulled up and two girls were inside. "Are you a Lymie? ``yes`, "then jump in Mother loves Lymies`. it was dark, I didnt notice, They were both crosseyed and twins. We got to the house and they took me in. " Hi Mom, we have found us a Lymie` Mom came into the lounge and she looked like Ben Turpin, she was crosseyed as well. They gave me a Bourbon, then another and another until I was getting crosseyed.
I said to one of the twins, `Come on lets go to bed`, the other one said `OK`. I said, " I wasnt talking to you". then the Mom said,
"I never said a word"
So Mom said "If your going to bed with my daughters then I am coming to"
What an unbelievable night, I eventually got up out of bed, around five in the morning, and left the three of them snoring, I crept out of the house and got a taxi back to the ship.
Last edited by captain kong; 02-02-2009 at 11:23 AM.
I always found it fascinating that ocean going ships could sail halfway across America in those huge Great Lakes - and when in the middle of them you do not see land either. Some of the biggest ships in the world sail those lakes (massive bulk carriers), but cannot get out as they are too large - some of the ships look ugly too with no splayed bows as ocean going vessels have. Some of the oldest used ships in the world are there too, as the water is not corrosive salt water.
I always wondered if a ship canal could have been built from Duluth (Bod Dylan was born there) to the Pacific. Then no need to use the Panama Canal and ports could be cut in off the ship canal too.
The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click
Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
canals to view its modern museum describing
how it once was?
Giving Liverpool a full Metro - CLICK
Rapid-transit rail: Everton, Liverpool & Arena - CLICK
Save Royal Iris - Sign Petition
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