Cruise Ship Terminal

[ChrisO]

My apologies if this has been discussed before, but todays Guardian carried an article about the so-called 'Costa Metallica' at Langton Dock. Apparantly, this mountain of scrap metal has resulted in a travel company- TUI Travel- withdrawing a programme of 30 cruises from Liverpool after a couple of trials because the tourists didn't approve of the surroundings at Langton ie. the huge mound of scrap metal, when they disembarked, meaning a loss of ?4.5m in port fees. According to the travel company, they can't use the Pier Head because it doesn't have any customs or immigration facilities, they are only provided by Peel at Langton Dock. What does everyone think? Why hasn't the Pier Head got customs and immigration facilities?

[Ged]

Hello Chris. There is another thread on here http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/liv...rminal-52.html

The last posting on which describes the hope for a customs point at the new cruise terminal. According to Roger phillips on the BBC Radio Merseyside phone-in, Cruise companies plan about 4 years in advance and Thompson's plans were never to be at liverpool for more than this year and it was known from the outset that Langton dock was going to be their calling point as other world cities use working docks for their point of calls too.

It is a pity though that the cruise terminal cannot be extended by either demolishing that criss cross wooden structure just to the north of the new terminal or if it has to stay, then incorporate it into a longer landing stage.

[Waterways]

It is a pity though that the cruise terminal cannot be extended by either demolishing that criss cross wooden structure just to the north of the new terminal

That was the cattle stage. Cattle was unloaded there. The idea was that at any stage of the tidal fall the floating landing stage was adjacent to a level on the wooden section, so the cows could walk up to the top.

[Broliv]

Now that is interesting!

[naked lilac]

Interesting is correct ... You would of thought the planning commission would have thought of this immigration/customs office, before they embarked on cruise liners coming into the City.. Especially for 08..Is the money lost in the City Storefronts?

I would think that a Customs Office would be automatic..not to be deverted for people to disembark at a cattle ramp???

[Waterways]

Competition laws dictating development hand outs. Liverpool could not have a terminal because Mostyn on the North Wales/River Dee coast had just financed a terminal from public money. This is what happens when everything has to wait for a hand out - there are always conditions. Mostyn got the money for a proper terminal, so Liverpool had to make do with a "port of call facility'. Amazing when Liverpool was the major ship passenger port of the UK.

Ships have to approach Mostyn through a very narrow channel - the River Dee is little more than a very wide ditch. It does not have the capacity to take a number of large cruise ships. Mostyn is little more than a village. Practical aspects like ships not able to use the grant funded terminal project don't come into it.

The old Pier Head passenger processing facilities were extensive - they were taken apart in the 1970s. They echoed the facilities in Ellis Island in New York - a fantastic sight.

Back in the 1960's a similar situation arose with the Mersey Docks and Harbour Board, when asked by the shipping companies to improve the facilities at the Pier Head for passengers. They said they were not interested, and were going to close the Riverside rail station too.

After around 200 years, the last scheduled trans-Atlantic passenger service left Liverpool in 1972, a Canadian Pacific Liner to Montreal - 1/2 million people lined the river see to her off. So, on the surface it appeared that MHDB were right. However, even then the cruise liner business was clearly an upcoming market. HDHB, even closed the south end docks prematurely. The large Brunswick Dock could have easily have gone on to this day - the further up river Garston Docks are still operative, even via an expensively dredged channel. Business students could have done more, their business acumen was so poor.

[Max]

Competition laws dictating development hand outs. Liverpool could not have a terminal because Mostyn on the North Wales/River Dee coast had just financed a terminal from public money. This is what happens when everything has to wait for a hand out - there are always conditions. Mostyn got the money for a proper terminal, so Liverpool had to make do with a "port of call facility'. Amazing when Liverpool was the major ship passenger port of the UK.

Ships have to approach Mostyn through a very narrow channel - the River Dee is little more than a very wide ditch. It does not have the capacity to take a number of large cruise ships. Mostyn is little more than a village. Practical aspects like ships not able to use the grant funded terminal project don't come into it.

The old Pier Head passenger processing facilities were extensive - they were taken apart in the 1970s. They echoed the facilities in Ellis Island in New York - a fantastic sight.

Back in the 1960's a similar situation arose with the Mersey Docks and Harbour Board, when asked by the shipping companies to improve the facilities at the Pier Head for passengers. They said they were not interested, and were going to close the Riverside rail station too.

After around 200 years, the last scheduled trans-Atlantic passenger service left Liverpool in 1972, a Canadian Pacific Liner to Montreal - 1/2 million people lined the river see to her off. So, on the surface it appeared that MHDB were right. However, even then the cruise liner business was clearly an upcoming market. HDHB, even closed the south end docks prematurely. The large Brunswick Dock could have easily have gone on to this day - the further up river Garston Docks are still operative, even via an expensively dredged channel. Business students could have done more, their business acumen was so poor.

So they could have ferries sailing the river Dee from the wirral or directly from Liverpool then?

I've wondered why they never have ferries going across the Dee from the Wirral or Liverpool. Well I would prefer to ferrie to North Wales over the trains anyway.

[Waterways]

So they could have ferries sailing the river Dee from the wirral or directly from Liverpool then?

I doubt if there is much demand for trips to Mostyn.

[Max]

True but the ferry trips seem so limited from Liverpool, stretching out to the North Wales coast not just Mostyn would be good.

[Devo]

Forgive my ignorance!
But, When the QE2 and Voyager of the seas ect docked at the new terminal, did their pasengers not disembark into the city to see the sights and spend their money?
Where was Customs/Immigration control then?

Langton Dock is not the place where cruise ships visiting Liverpool should go, I thought the new terminal would be for all Cruise ships.

[naked lilac]

Thanks Waterways.. very informative (as usual).. thanks.. It is a pity something can't be done for the many tourist that would come.. Even Venezia , Italy.. has many passanger cruise liners in the port ..and have made it very accessable to all who want to view their fine City...Seems only appropriate..Liverpool could do better... Interesting.. ta

[Waterways]

True but the ferry trips seem so limited from Liverpool, stretching out to the North Wales coast not just Mostyn would be good.

There were trips, in the summer, to Llandudno. John Lennon frequented them.

[Waterways]

Forgive my ignorance!
But, When the QE2 and Voyager of the seas ect docked at the new terminal, did their pasengers not disembark into the city to see the sights and spend their money?
Where was Customs/Immigration control then?

There is no baggage handling and limited passport control, probably done mainly on board ship.

[Waterways]

...

[Waterways]

Thanks Waterways.. very informative (as usual).. thanks.. It is a pity something can't be done for the many tourist that would come.. Even Venezia , Italy.. has many passanger cruise liners in the port ..and have made it very accessable to all who want to view their fine City...Seems only appropriate..Liverpool could do better... Interesting.. ta

As a port of call, Liverpool has limited attraction, however they do come. The business of starting and ending cruises in the port is what is needed, as people all over the north of England, the Midlands, Wales and Scotland will descend on the city to take the cruises. However extensive passenger processing facilities are needed. If a ship operates from a port on a regular basis, there is also spin off business of revamping a ship. Canadian Pacific ships would enter the docks and 1000s of people would descend on the ship, to paint, repair cabins, overall engines, get electrics right, etc.

The tallest, widest and longest passenger ship in the world is the Queen Mary 2 (not the largest in tonnage, but there are a few differing ways of calculating this). Liverpool docks are deep enough for the QM2, but the lock gates are not wide enough. The gates were sized for the likes of the Lusitania and Titanic.

For nearly 40 years the port has needed at least one set of very wide river locks. If they are built, and there are no plans to, post-Panamax container ships (14,000 containers as opposed to 8,000) can enter the enclosed dock system and the QM2 as well. Also the new navy aircraft carriers which will be not short in size of the USS Enterprise, could enter and use the dry dock facilities too - so the government may pay towards widening the locks with some luck.

Post-panamax ships will berth in the tidal river and rest on the riverbed at low tide. What is needed is dry docks ship repair facilities for them, then the port is more attractive because if they have a structural problem it can be repaired quickly and in a regular port of call.